Milosevic is still in power as Vojislav Seselj is about to enter a new pre-election campaign with the same story about the overthrow of Milosevic. A fact that many have predicted the end of Seselj's political career after his split with Milosevic can serve as a consolation for Seselj: he is still politically alive and kicking.
The leader of the Radicals is certainly among the most controversial personalities on the political scene. For example, he claims that he is "the least spontaneous politician," and that he "calculates everything in advance." His political opponents, however, claim that as "an impulsive player" he is too spontaneous. Seselj sees himself as a very rational politician, while his opponents see him as a man who in politics, especially that with the national prefix, has always supported the same line : "whatever it takes". Seselj also sees himself as "an extremely well informed politician". The opponents, on the other hand say that "he used to be well informed," while he had good connections in the ruling regime and the police.
Ivica Dacic has recently said that the elections would take place in the Fall of this year. He also added that the Socialist Party wouldn't have any problems with this sort of opposition...
The Socialists are weaker than ever before. Dacic shouldn't be trusted about the date for the forthcoming elections. His statement is only a trial balloon. We were convinced that the Socialists would call the elections immediately after the signing of the agreement in Dayton. That seemed as a most rational option. They, however, had some internal problems and didn't dare call the elections. The Socialists could try to surprise the opposition by a sudden call for the elections. But we will be ready.
Why would the Socialists hurry with the Serbian elections when they can wait for the regular elections date, next year?
Because the negotiations about the Albanian participation in the elections are currently going on. Milosevic has made some promises in Dayton and he will try to fulfill them. If the Albanians participate in the elections than they will have to call elections on all levels, republican and federal. At the same time, Milosevic is trying to complete and adopt the Constitution before the federal elections, in order to run for the federal president as, according to the law, he cannot run for the Serbian president any more. He is making combinations with the Democratic Socialist Party of Montenegro [DPS] and it seems that they are now under his control. He is also behind the expulsion of all radical parliamentarians from the Montenegrin parliament. He has a lot of data he can use against Milo Djukanovic, Bulatovic, Marovic and other leaders of the DPS. The former Montenegrin secret police chief, Bojovic, has practically defected to Milosevic, probably bringing the data about all kinds of affairs which had occured in Montenegro. Montenegrin leadership in under Milosevic's thumb.
Until recently there's been some talk about the united opposition list for the forthcoming elections. You were the first one to drop out of that plan...
If the Socialists impose a new election law, with first-past-the-post electoral system, all of us will try to go to the elections with single opposition candidates. For now, there is no need for that. If we were, under these circumstances, to go to the elections with a single list, this could turn away a certain number of our voters. It could turn away a proportion of the SPO and the Democrats supporters. The consequence might be a loss of opposition votes. The cooperation of the opposition parties should be much more serious. The previous attempts at cooperation were disastrous and shouldn't be repeated.
Then, you are against a single opposition list and a single leader?
The opposition does not need a single leader. A person who would try to impose himself as an opposition leader would actually break up the opposition forces. Neither Draskovic [SPO leader] nor Djindjic [Democrats leader] can lead the opposition. We have never even contemplated that role. The opposition must cooperate on a sound basis and without passionate embraces. We must not love each other too much, because we will hate each other later. The radicals are prepared for the cooperation with these three opposition parties: SPO, DS [Democratic party] and DSS [Democratic party of Serbia].
What kind of cooperation between the opposition parties is possible? On what basis?
We intend to offer an agreement which should be signed by these four opposition parties. With this agreement we would undertake an obligation never to enter a coalition with the Socialists. Also we would agree not to support any piece of legislation proposed by the Socialists. And then we'll see if the agreement is going to work. This has to be done, at least in a form of an unofficial agreement. If this cannot be agreed on, that means that some of us are making calculations and planning to trade and conspire with the Socialists. The Radicals have a very negative experience from the January of 1994. The opposition was united then as well and we could have defeated the socialists. At least, we could have forced Milosevic to dissolve that parliament and call the new elections. However, the New Democracy party betrayed the opposition and gave 4 votes to the Socialists. Now, we are supposed to give them another chance? Never. There are other examples for the betrayal of the opposition interests. When I mention this, they tell me "Yes, but what about the time when you were cooperating with Milosevic?" I did cooperate with Milosevic, but when I did, I did not cooperate with other opposition parties. I kept my side of the agreement, Milosevic broke it.
Does it mean that the opposition will contest these elections in "three alliances"? You would be in one of them, Djindjic and Kostunica [DSS leader] in another one and Draskovic and some smaller opposition parties in a third one?
That also wouldn't be a good solution. We shouldn't include small political parties without parliamentary representation, because later it will be impossible to form a common government. If Draskovic puts the New Democracy in the parliament, he cannot count on any kind of future cooperation with us. The same goes for Veselinov, or that Canak. We can tolerate Vesna Pesic [the leader of the Civic Alliance], she is already there [cooperating with the SPO] and we have nothing against it. But we cannot tolerate Canak, Veselinov, Rasim Ljajic [the leader of one of two factions of the main muslim party in Serbia, SDA], no. Who is going to form a government with them after the elections, when each on of them counts on some sort of representation. It is easy to contest the elections together with them, hug them and raise arms together.
What do you think about the achievements of the parallel parliament? How can the public find out about the decisions of that parliament in the conditions of a total media isolation?
The achievements of the parallel parliament are great. The Socialists are extremely worried about it. We question the legitimacy of their authority. It doesn't matter what kind of laws we pass in that parliament; what matters is that we do not return to the Serbian and federal parliament until our conditions are fulfilled.
Recently, you've said that the parallel parliament is not enough and that it would be necessary "to go out on the streets, but with caution." What do "cautious demonstrations" look like?
In practice that means that we are ready for non-violent extra-parliamentary political struggle. Even if the police is violent we should not react. We should take their blows the way we did in Gnjilane this summer. Draskovic disagrees with that. He says: "if the police attacks we will respond with force." Maybe he can achieve everything that way, but we are not ready for that.
It seems that you are for the Ghandian, non-violent resistance?
That is correct. If we can take enough people to the street, we will win by using non-violent methods. If we cannot take enough people to the streets, that is the best indicator that the situation is not ripe for change.
This year's elections will be the first ones on which the economy will have the most prominent role. The formation of the national state is out, as well as "the winning back of the national pride"...
You should take into account that the Socialists have until now won every election as nationalists. National, economic and social factors will to a certain extent, play an equal role in the forthcoming elections. Economic and social factors may be slightly more prominent, but those social problems are related to the national question, with the problem of refugees. As far as the economy is concerned, the Socialists are very week. They will use the state-controlled TV in this campaign to try to convince the people that the situations is better now, but it isn't. And it won't improve in the near future since the Socialists won't receive financial assistance from abroad.
But they can bring back money from Cyprus...
That will be very hard, since most of that money is in private accounts. They will begin to flee abroad, one by one, in order to try to keep that money.
You contested the first post-communist elections on a basis of a nationalist program and the demand for a western Serbian border along the line Virovitica-Karlovac-Karlobag [towns in Croatia]. Later, you talked about equal pensions and wages. What will it be this year?
We never demanded equal salaries. We demanded that the salaries in the state-owned companies be regulated through a system of different classes. We still support that idea. We also want to speed up privatization and will not get involved with the salaries in the private sector. As a state, we will insist on a minimum wage. We also support equalization of all pensions based on the work experience. We don't have a motto for the forthcoming elections yet. It will have to include national, economic and social factors.
Many analysts believe that the peace in Bosnia works against the Radicals?
That is not correct. Did you hear a few days ago, that Alija Izetbegovic stated that he gave the best chances for victory in the Srpska Republic to the Seselj's Chetniks. That is the Serbian Radical Party. Another point: there is no lasting peace in Bosnia.
Since we are talking about the Srpska Republic, what will you do if you win the elections there? Would you respect the Dayton agreement, or would you try to change something, since you've said that this agreement was the greatest "betrayal" of Serb national interests?
A legal international document must be respected; however we would do our utmost to change it. I am convinced that we could achieve that. For example, if the Americans were interested to include us in the partnership for peace, NATO, we would accept that. But we would demand the control of eastern Slavonija, Baranja, Vinkovci, Osijek, Zupanja, Dubrovnik and Dubrovnik riviera in return, so that those Serbs who were expelled from Croatia could return there. It is important for us to return at least a part of the lost territories of the Republic Serb Krajina. We will never give up and will wait for a suitable historical circumstances to achieve that. Of course, we do not support a war option, but who knows what will happen in the next 10 years in Europe. France waited for 47 years to recover Alsace and Lorraine which had been captured by Bismarck in the French-Prussian war. The history is getting faster and faster; we won't have to wait as long as the French did. We still claim those territories.
The Germans also waited for their reunification for a long time. Still they didn't even consider going to war to achieve that...
We won't use force. That's for sure. We are not stupid to think that we can wage war against NATO and the whole world...
Come on, haven't you demanded, throughout this war that the government stay strong before the rest of the world, cut off all links and say "that's enough, no more negotiations"? Hasn't this policy brought us where we are today? Whatever it takes?
Had the regime done as we demanded it would have achieved much more. The Americans were shocked by what Milosevic agreed to in Dayton. Why do American diplomats talk about the "whiskey corridor"? It is unbelievable to what he agreed in Dayton. They approached him scientifically; they have in a computer his personality profile and use that to plan how to negotiate with him. They know that he is a man who at first resists, only to later give in and accept much more than what had been asked from him at the beginning. The policy of procrastination has caused the bad situation on all fronts. In war, one must have a radical goal. You have to try to achieve the maximum, then see what you can keep. And we had 37 cease fires in 1991 only. Why weren't Dubrovnik, Sibenik, Karlovac and Ogulin captured? Why wasn't all Western Slavonia, Osijek, Vinkovci, Zupanja captured...? If they were captured we would today have a completely different situation...
So, you are ready to wage a war against the whole world...?
...Besides, the Croatian independence wouldn't have been recognized. Croatia would have stayed in the federation, and Serb Krajina would remain as its, at least autonomous, part. The war in Bosnia-Hercegovina wouldn't have broken out, Macedonia wouldn't have declared independence. We would have had a rump Yugoslavia.
One could think of different scenarios too. Radovan Karadzic, a politician after your taste, kept defying the West, didn't step back and, in the end, he's got a ticket for the Hague.
Karadzic made a terrible mistake in the end. Had he not allowed Milosevic to represent the Srpska Republic, he would have had to represent it himself. Now that he has allowed Milosevic to represent RS, they can indict him. He can be totally ignored. That signature was fatal.
You claim that Radovan Karadzic isn't guilty of anything. You accuse Nikola Koljevic for the bombardment of Sarajevo and Predrag Radic for the destruction of mosques in Banja Luka. Do you have evidence for these allegations?
There is a written order which shows that Koljevic has ordered the bombardment of Sarajevo. At the beginning of the civil war in Bosnia-Hercegovina, when the leadership of the SDS withdrew to Pale, the Army demanded a written order for the bombardment of Sarajevo. Karadzic couldn't issue that order because he was only a party leader, nothing else. Krajisnik was a president of the Bosnian parliament and said that, as a representative of the legislative authorities he wasn't competent to issue that order. Biljana Plavsic [Bosnian Serb vice=president, a member of the Bosnian presidency before the war] wasn't in Pale at the time. Koljevic happened to be there. He was formally the vicepresident of Bosnia-Hercegovina, Izetbegovic's vicepresident and a member of the Bosnian presidency. So, he signed that order. As far as Radic is concerned it is well known that throughout the war he refused to follow Karadzic's orders. it is known that he had a direct line to Belgrade. He ordered that the mosques in Banja Luka be demolished. There is a written order which implicates Koljevic, and for Radic there are a lot of facts. I don't have anything on a paper, but ...
You were also mentioned as a candidate for an appearance in the Hague. Especially after you broke up your "patriotic alliance" with the Socialists...
That was between us and Milosevic. We had no connections with the Socialist Party, but with Milosevic we had concrete agreements.
After that alliance fell apart, you and your party were accused of a lot of dirty deeds in this war.
Fabrications. If they had anything against the SRS they would have used it a long time ago. They didn't have anything. They even arrested a lot of our people and then quietly released them later. I am the only Serbian politician who has been accused of war crimes by foreign journalists and certain foreign politicians. I am also the only one who stated that he would voluntarily go to the Hague as soon as they invited him. They do not need an extradition in my case. I'll pack my bags immediately. Besides, I've already had contacts with the Hague tribunal and expressed readiness to go there if indicted. They told me that they did not have anything and that they did not use journalistic fabrications but concrete facts. At the same time I informed them that I was ready to appear as a defense witness for Karadzic. Because I have a lot of evidence which proves that neither Karadzic, nor Martic, at any time during this war, commanded the Army of the Srpska Republic and the Republic Serb Krajina, respectively. The commands came directly from Belgrade, exclusively from Slobodan Milosevic. Finally, I've met Ratko Mladic several times during this war, always and exclusively in the office of Slobodan Milosevic.
Recently, you have been attacking Mirjana Markovic [Milosevic's wife], more often that Milosevic. These attacks are usually very blunt. Why has she become a more important target for your attacks?
Because she is the key personality of this regime. Her word is more respected than his. If his ideas contradict hers, hers are implemented.
You've accused Milosevic of drinking, of signing agreements in Dayton while drinking whiskey. If that is true, why does it bother you? Zirinovski also likes to drink, so what?
Zirinovski doesn't drink. He has recently spent three days in Belgrade and hasn't had a drop of alcohol.
Why do they call him a "puppet of vodka fascism", then?
I think that the western media have tried to make a caricature out of him. Remember, I also had a similar treatment.
Isn't is true that you share responsibility for that sort of reputation? Do you remember that parade with a wooden stake in front of the House of Flowers in Dedinje...[where Yugoslav Communist leader, Josip Broz Tito is buried]
Wait, wasn't that well received by the public...
Then that story about rusty spoons for Croats...
Rusty spoons were mentioned on "Minimaxovision," a satirical show. And they weren't reserved for anyone in particular. It was a reply to a direct question, "you Chetniks are slaughtering people again?" I said, of course, only we have changed our methods; now, instead of knifes, we use shoe horns [shoe spoons in Serbo-Croatian]. And rusty ones at that, so that it cannot be established whether the victim died because of butchering or from tetanus. It was clear that I was trying to satirize the whole thing. Desa Trevisan was the first journalist who abused this in the London Times when she claimed that I had said that we had slaughtered Croats with shoe horns.
You've also threatened to bomb Rome, Vienna...
This was supposed to happen if the NATO aircraft bombed Serb targets. What does it mean: they have a right to bomb us and we do not have a right to hit back. Our army was capable of that. They could have bombed Zagreb as well, but Milosevic prevented that when he sent Franko Simatovic Frenki, red berets commander, to take charge of the rockets based on Petrova Gora. If he hadn't done that, if he hadn't guaranteed Tudjman that he wouldn't use those rockets, the Croats would have never attacked Krajina.
You were one of the politicians who has often classified the people as "patriots" and "traitors". Do you feel at least partially responsible that a lot of people are ashamed these days to say that they are patriots? So many criminals and low-life laundered their resumes in this war and crossed over to the "patriots"?
Not at all. There is the real, true patriotism as well as the fake one. Those who cashed in on their patriotism weren't true patriots. But, no one can accuse us of cashing in on our ideals. We haven't dirtied our hands by making money from somebody else's suffering. All those who became rich are close to the regime.