When, at the end of February, the former Yugoslav Army Chief of Staff, Momcilo Perisic, requested a review of his status within the Yugoslav Army based on his education, his rank and the duties he performed he received the following official notification: "The professional military service of Momcilo Perisic, son of Srecko, General-Colonel, born on May 22, 1944, an employee of the Federal Government, is hereby terminated. Reason for dismissal: "Unexcused absence from duty for five consecutive days." A note regarding right to appeal: "This decree is final and no appeal is permitted." Signed by: "Slobodan Milosevic".
General-Colonel Perisic is now asking to be allowed to take an early retirement. He has sent a written request twice to the appropriate office but has yet to receive an answer.
He has no other affiliations at all.
In an exclusive interview with NIN, Momcilo Perisic, who also holds a degree in psychology, explains why he was forced to leave his high post, why he would not accept a civilian government position and comments on the most important topics of our time, our people and our country.
NIN: Until now you have been silent; now you have decided to break that silence. Why were you silent and what made you speak now?
PERISIC: I remained silent because, by dismissing me from the post of the Chief of Staff, the current state leadership made it impossible for the Yugoslav Army to play a major role in influencing the course of events; and anything that I would have attempted to do in my new role of a civilian would have been incorrectly interpreted as an act of personal dissatisfaction, and the results would have been negligible.
Today we are faced with new dangers to our people and our country and I believe that, together with other democratic and patriotic forces which have realized how critical our situation is, I can help prevent a new catastrophe. This is why I have chosen to speak now.
You knew for quite a while that you would be replaced; what were the warning signs?
The current state leadership, aware that it was losing popularity among the citizens, knew it had to "discipline" its institutions, including the Army. It wanted the Yugoslav Army to be a blind executor of its decisions, even of those which were poorly thought out and destructive.
Since the Army is a state institution with a clearly defined purpose and duty, I prevented its misuse, especially with respect to the interests of its citizens and the people, and to the detriment of the reputation of the members of the Yugoslav Army. This resulted in my dismissal.
Did you ever consider submitting your resignation?
On several occasions I considered altering the manner of my involvement but I did not consider submitting my resignation because it is not customary to do this in the Army.
I was aware that the current state leadership wanted to remain in power at any price, without regard for the destructive results of its policies for the people and the country, and that it was capable of causing a catastrophe by misusing the Yugoslav Army. This is why I remained as its Chief of Staff for such a long period.
You rejected a newly created civilian position in the federal government; can you comment on this?
It is highly irregular to illegally and without any prior consultation whatsoever make the decision to appoint someone to a newly created position without his knowledge and acquiescence, especially when that someone is a general who is being appointed to a position outside the Yugoslav Army.
Furthermore, it is pointless to advise the president of the government on defense matters when he already has a minister of defense and especially when he is oblivious to the degree of danger presented by irrational foreign and domestic policies which have driven us into a position of total isolation and hopelessness.
While serving in your previous position, were you asked to do anything which conflicted with your sense of military and personal honor?
Because the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was not properly functioning in the true and formal sense, and because only the Army remained active throughout Yugoslavia, it was frequently asked to compensate for the lack of functionality of the other federal institutions. Of course, I did not permit this to occur and did everything I could to protect the Army and its members from misuse in every respect.
Considering its hierarchical structure, is it possible to think for oneself in the Army?
It is perhaps more important to think for oneself in the Army than anywhere else. A smart decision of a professional soldier, especially that of a general, ensures the survival not only of each soldier but also of the people as a whole; a less than intelligent decision will lead to human casualties and great material damage; and a stupid decision will bring into question the survival of the Army, the people and the country itself.
A real army, by its knowledge, its skill and its posture, will serve as a deterrent for the enemy and will give its policy-makers the strongest arguments possible to resolve conflicts using diplomatic means.
If this is not enough, however, and the Army must wage a war, then there must be clear political and national goals, realism in the setting of comprehensive goals, which can be achieved with as few casualties as possible both in the Army and among the people. If the goals are unclear, unrealistic and the Army leadership is not thinking for itself, the results are destructive for the Army, the people and the country.
A country which does not teach its army think for itself will ultimately have to listen to and serve a foreign army which will do all the thinking - as an occupying force.
How much did your notable speech in Gornji Milanovac influence your dismissal?
The purpose of the speech in Gornji Milanovac was to inform the public of the critical situation of our country, to provide an accurate forecast of the future development of events and to prepare us to prevent the consequences of possible destructive decisions, that is, to engage the public in the prevention of such decisions. The warning was largely ignored, as were many others, and the results are obvious. My dismissal spared me from complicity and responsibility for these mistakes, but the Army and the people were forced into a brutal war against NATO during the course of which we endured incalculable human and material damage. The continued survival of the country and the people has been brought into question.
You have seen the video recording of that meeting, but unfortunately most people are not acquainted with the contents of the speech. I think that it would be good if they were because it would then be glaringly obvious who were the culprits responsible for preparing a Golgotha for their own people. They would not be able to claim that experts did not warn them of the risk involved in what they were about to do.
You formally removed all political party affiliations from the Army; was this held against you?
In a multi-party state, the Army must be without party affiliations, beyond party affiliations, above party affiliations. This is well-regulated by the Constitution; however, in practice, all the parties want to have influence in the Army. If the parties adhere to a true national and patriotic platform which is in the interest of the people which they represent, then the Army belongs to all the parties equally. However, when, as it has been our experience, party interests are more important that the interests of the people and the country, then the Army is placed under tremendous pressure. While I was in the Yugoslav Army, it was completely free of political party affiliations; now, it seems that the Army leadership has become a branch office of the Socialist Party of Serbia and the Yugoslav United Left [the parties of Slobodan Milosevic and his wife, Mira Markovic, respectively]. Nevertheless, this is not the case throughout the whole organization and I hope that it will not become the case.
The Yugoslav United Left has attempted to influence all institutions, including the Army, in many different ways. Unfortunately, by usurpation, blackmail and fear it has forced its way into all institutions, including the Yugoslav Army, but this happened only after my dismissal.
Did everything have to happen exactly as it did? In Milanovac you said: "Ladies and gentlemen, we have no allies in the world, and Serbia has never embarked upon a war without allies." A portion of the people and of the government believed in the Russians; what did the state leadership believe in?
Developments in the FRY are influenced, roughly, by three separate yet nonetheless interdependent factors: the international community, which represents the external factor; the citizens of FRY, who are the decisive internal factor; and the leaders of the people, the citizens (the government leadership).
We cannot really change the influence of the international community and it is therefore a constant factor. The character of the citizens, the people, likewise cannot be changed so it is also a constant factor.
The government leadership -- the leaders themselves -- can and must be changed. This factor is a variable which decisively shapes our relationship with the world, as well as the creation of conditions necessary for the release of the tremendous amount of energy and creativity and talent which our people possess.
In order to arrive at valid conclusions regarding the selection of its leaders, the people must first know what the options are and that is only possible with uncensored media and free speech. The current leadership is well aware of this; since it is aware that it cannot change the situation for the better in terms of improving the living standard of its own citizens, it uses deception and lies to alter and shape the perceptions of the people regarding the current situation, doing this, of course, in its own best interests.
This is how they have repeatedly pushed the people into an episode of suffering, while they themselves remain untouchable; indeed, every time the people have been pushed into an episode of suffering, the authorities derived material profit from it and became all the more arrogant.
Where is the limit to the cynicism of the current government when it can initiate a war to defend Serbs and territories which ends in a "victory" resulting in the death and exile of the Serbs and the loss of the territories?
Yes, this is what had to happen with the current leaders, and this is what will continue to happen as long as they are in power.
If the recommendations of experts and true patriots had been considered, this would never have happened and we would be living like all normal people in Europe.
The current state leadership believes that it rules by divine right and that it should continue to rule aas long as it wants to without regard for the plight and wishes of the people.
Does this mean that the NATO aggression could, despite everything, have been avoided?
The NATO aggression could have been avoided had the current state leadership understood or wanted to understand general world trends, regional developments and the internal situation in FRY. Since the leadership was not realistic and did not wish to consider competent opinions and recommendations, the world was transformed from a potential ally into an enemy, and our people led into a hopeless situation.
What kind of solutions did you offer to the state leadership and how did the leadership respond, if it did respond?
We warned well in advance that the problem of Kosovo and Metohija must be resolved openly and in a completely peaceful manner. We proved convincingly that the current situation was intolerable and that the governments of Serbia and FRY were not functioning in Kosovo with the exception of a few institutions in a few local areas, and that the Yugoslav Army was the only institution which was able to perform its function. We even sent people in whom the current leadership had tremendous confidence to Kosovo to give them an opportunity to witness all this; they saw everything and advised the federal government but there was no timely reaction. At the beginning of 1998, it was recommended and requested that a state of emergency be declared in the region of Kosovo and Metohija in order to prevent negative developments but this was rejected. Later on the Yugoslav Army and the Ministry of Interior Affairs were called in to eliminate terrorism but in a manner which only caused the international community to begin to threaten us and, unfortunately, to make good on its threats.
I assume that you have some sort of a picture, an impression regarding the immediate circle surrounding the president of FRY?
The president of FRY is surrounded, roughly speaking, by two kinds of people: one group is exceptionally capable, flexible, useful to him and to each other but without sufficient personal integrity; they are exceptionally loyal executors who get all their opinions from the president.
In addition to them, there is another group of people who have no function and no position but who know and can do everything and who, unfortunately, are allowed to do anything.
At one time you advocated drawing nearer to the so-called Partnership for Peace program and you did not exclude working directly with NATO. Do you still believe today that this position was more sensible than the official position? Would it have helped us considering the horrible fate that has befallen us since then?
An analysis of general world trends and regional developments, especially in our immediate neighborhood, forces upon us the understanding that we must not and cannot go into isolation for at least three key reasons: as a country, we do not have the resources to live in isolation; our people are European and cosmopolitan in their outlook and cannot be isolated from the world; we are at the crossroads of major trade routes and civilizations and even if we wanted to live in isolation, the world would not let us do it.
Since that is how matters stand, it is necessary to change our policies toward the world to ensure a dignified position for our people and recognition of its tremendous worth, which the world acknowledged long ago. Does this mean a membership in the Partnership for Peace? Before the aggression it certainly did but now, after the bombs, destruction and human victims, it is the people who must decide if it still does. Of course, that is not a military but a political decision but it should be not be made by the current government but by another, a new one.
We should have had a policy regarding this, as well as many other things, prior to the aggression. In October we arranged for NATO to be our colleague in Kosovo and Metohija -- without bombing, destruction and occupation, without the forced expulsion of Serbs. Now the situation is obvious: the country has been bombed, the majority of Serbs have been expelled from Kosovo and Metohija, Kosovo and Metohija itself has been occupied, and the state leadership together with the Army leadership is celebrating a "victory"! What sort of victory, who won it and against whom? And where are the people? Suffering, always suffering.
What did you do (and how did you feel) during the two and a half months while the country was being bombed? Did anyone contact you for assistance, advice, your expert opinion?
I spent my time in sorrow together with my people; no one contacted me for help or my opinion. I made myself available to the Chief of Staff and the Ministry of Defense, although I had been discharged from the Yugoslav Army by the decree of the FRY president issued on March 12, twelve days before the start of the aggression.
After this most unfortunate development -- which, admittedly, you foresaw -- is it possible to build something new and better, and how?
All forecasts were based on facts and science, and they are the fruit of the subliminal collective intelligence of Yugoslav Army Chiefs of Staff. Unfortunately, they have been borne out by actual events. However, the narcissistic people who are deciding the fate of the people did not wish to face reality, choosing instead to believe in some sort of an imaginary salvation. It is true that they have managed to save themselves, at least for now, while the Serbs in Kosovo have been again abandoned to their fate. It is critical to act quickly to create a common platform which will gather all the democratic forces in Serbia and Montenegro -- in Yugoslavia -- with the goal of rejoining the world, for without integration there is no chance of our survival. America and Russia and Germany and Belarus must be our allies; we simply cannot allow ourselves an irrational policy which will make the most powerful countries in the world our enemies.
In that case, fundamental changes, first and foremost a change in leadership, are essential?
The current state leadership must be replaced by political means, and the people must be led not on a platform based on hate and violence, but on one based on civil and democratic programs.
But how can the nervous leadership be replaced without bloodshed? Surely they will resist...
The danger of civil war exists but it must be avoided because a civil war would bring into question the survival of both the country and the people. A war could be provoked by irresponsible groups, either by those in power or in opposition. That is exactly why I have chosen to speak and why everyone else who can help to avert this danger must not remain silent. How can a people as intelligent, creative and humane as our own be incapable of understanding who is our friend, who should be leading us and where we should be going? Have we not had enough bitter experiences with divisions among ourselves to once and for all look for representatives who will unite us instead of dividing us, who are prepared to sacrifice themselves for the people and the country instead of sacrificing us in order to remain in power forever?
Do you think there will be violence?
There must not be any violence. Whoever initiates violence against the people or misuses the people in order to commit violence will be the first victim of that violence. I believe that all intelligent people and all institutions cannot afford to stand aside and allow the fates of their families and the futures of their children be determined by superficial and irresponsible people instead of professionals with knowledge, integrity and a vision of the future within Europe and in the world.
In the event such an unfortunate development should occur, what is your instinct regarding how the Army will respond?
I believe the overwhelming majority of our professional soldiers, both our junior and senior officers have the honor, dignity, professionalism and love for the people and for the citizens. I know that neither they nor our outstanding soldiers will be able to carry out any order against the people and the citizens of FRY. They know very well what is in and what is against the interests of their people and their country.
Is there any friction between the Army and the Police?
Both the Army and the Police are composed of our people and our citizens. The differences between them are only in terms of their function and the duties which they perform, but not in their relation to the people. Divisions like these can be promoted only by sick minds and irresponsible individuals. After all, did the Army and the Police not demonstrate and prove that they defended our people together and made sacrifices for each other? And they are not to blame for policies which led to that situation.
In spite of, as you said, catastrophic result, the impression is that the present authorities can not be replaced by democratic means?
The character of our people is such that it overnight makes from ordinary men leaders. Once these leaders are established, it is hard to replace them. Because of the previous system, many are convinced that they should lead the state and remain in responsible posts until they die. If we truly want to move towards democracy, to get closer to Europe, we must, above all, to limit the time individuals spend in responsible posts. The length of their tenure in such posts should be proportional to their capabilities and results, instead of their ambitions and desires.
The current authorities could conclude through analysis that until now it only produced catastrophic results and that it is high time they, in the interest of the state, people, and even in their own interest, resigned and allowed younger and more capable politicians to take their place.
What were the real losses of the Yugoslav Army during the NATO aggression and has the core of the Army been shaken up?
I do not know the exact losses. Whatever they are, in terms of human lives they are irreplaceable and that is the most difficult thing to accept -- because it could have been avoided had it been considered in advance. The other losses resulting from the NATO aggression were far smaller than expected by the West. However, the direct consequences for the Army which resulted from rash decisions are great and can potentially destroy it, as well as the country. Officially, the Army "won"; however, it withdrew from Kosovo and Metohija and left the people and the territory undefended, not through any fault of its own but because of an irrational policy. The soldiers were prepared, as were the members of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, to fight to the end for their people and country, but they met again with the strategy we have already seen from Slovenia to Kosovo: "advance - stop - retreat". Where, how long, why? Everything that the Yugoslav National Army, later on the Yugoslav Army, and the people achieved together, everything from Triglav to Djevdjelija, from Horgos to Pastrik, was undermined by the current policy. The greatest loss is that the Army is incapable of accepting this as its own fault; why should it, when it is not its fault. This is the answer to the question "Should the Army leadership think for itself?"
Will the Army require a lot of time and investment to recover?
The Army will recover much faster than the legal state and its institutions, if the state leadership appreciates all of it. The present authorities concentrated on the military leadership while they ignored the rest of the Army in social and material sense and by failed to provide modern equipment.
There was talk of some kind of a special "secret", "Russian", "Tesla's" weapon...?
Military equipment is expensive. For a long time we were without significant funds for weapons and military equipment whatsoever. It was frequently said that there simply was no money, and the sanctions, the blockade, etc. were usually mentioned. Under sanctions, it was apparently not economically feasible to procure modern weapons systems; on the other hand, there appeared to be sufficient funds for houses, villas, and stadiums... less important things. Imminent danger was not really a consideration; therefore, the need to arm ourselves with modern technology was never a priority. The results of this are self-evident. Whoever will not feed, clothe and equip his own soldier with modern equipment will have to live under the rule of a foreign soldier. This situation has so far only happened in Kosovo and Metohija but who knows what tomorrow will bring?
Objectively, is Kosmet lost to us?
The resolution of the status of Kosovo and Metohija will depend on democratic-patriotic changes in Serbia and FRY. The analysis of the events since 1990 influenced by certain government factors clearly shows what can yet occur. If changes are implemented, there is a possibility that the status of Kosovo and Metohija will be resolved within the framework of Serbia and FRY, and that the Serbs and Montenegrins who were expelled from Kosovo and Metohija will be able to return.
Does it seem at all to you that what has been done with respect to Kosovo amounts to a discrete form of capitulation?
In some respects it is even worse than that.
What is your summation of the current relations of Serbia and Montenegro?
The relations are unacceptable, frivolous and leading to the creation of an even greater distance between them, to say the least. It is strange that the most responsible Montenegrins in the government of FRY are forcing their own republic out of FRY. Where are they planning to go?
Is there a solution for Serbia and Yugoslavia at all, and what is it?
There is a solution. To preserve the federation by securing for it a position of equality and cooperation with others, which is possible only with new people.
Several questions of a more personal nature and a few regarding your military career. Why and when did you select the military profession?
Since I was a small child I always loved the Army, the people and the country. I decided to join the military in high school and when I graduated I was extremely happy to apply for a place at and to be accepted into the Military Academy.
How did you adjust to military life? Was it difficult?
I worked selflessly, with love, dedication and responsibility, always rationally and with a plan, with consideration for human dignity, knowledge, expertise and I worried about every individual soldier like my own brother or later, like my own son. If I had the chance to make the choice again, I would not change anything; but I can't. However, my youngest son, who is now completing his second year at the Academy, will be able to.
You are now in the finest mature and creative period of your life. What will you do and where will you go from here?
After completing my service in the Yugoslav Army, I had planned to dedicate myself to my other occupation, psychology, and to writing -- works of fiction, certainly not memoirs. However, because of the cruel fate which has befallen the people and the country more than anything due to the mistakes of the immature state leadership, I am thinking about the need to remain publicly active; to assist al democratic, patriotic forces to transcend this most difficult period in the history of the Serbian people; to prevent the further deterioration of the FRY; to rejoin Europe and to rejoin the world; to overcome the damages of war and to construct a united, democratic country in which all citizens will feel better and live in greater security.