Ask Milovan Stankovic and Dusko Zivkovic who Mobilized and Sent "Mice"

Nezavisne Novine, Banja Luka, Srpska, B-H, September 29 1999

NN: Do you know who organized "Mice" and sent them to Teslic?

RADULOVIC: I can respond to this question in two ways. The first one implies that I should direct you to Milovan Sokolovic, a former Minister for Internal Affairs of the Republic of Srpska, who is one of the founders of this group. In that context, you should also ask for clarification from Mr. Dusko Zivkovic, the then and current chief of the State Security Service in Doboj. He would have to know how come "Mice" members included many active and reserve members of SDB.

But, since I do not want to leave you without a detailed answer, I can tell you that "Mice" were an armed formation (I deliberately refrain from qualifying it as military or paramilitary), and were known in Doboj even before their arrival to Teslic. Some of the members of the group were ordinary criminals, well known to the Police even before the war. The other part of the group was filled by active and reserve members of the State Security Service. Most of them crossed the line between honor and dishonor, humanity and inhumanity, not thinking that one day they will be on the receiving end and that people will point at them and place attributes such as ghoulish and scary in front of their names. For the sake of the truth I must say that a certain number of youngsters were among the members of "Mice". They probably believed that they were joining an elite Serb military unit, not realizing that they were actually becoming members of a criminal and shameful formation. "Mice" and similar formations will remain as the darkest blights in the history of the Serb people. They disfigured, satanized and soiled that what Serbs had built for centuries and which differentiated them from other nations.

Could "Mice" arrive to Teslic without knowledge of the political and Police leadership of Srpska?

I would rather not speculate about that. You must ask the above mentioned gentlemen about that. I only know that the leadership of the State Security Service in Banja Luka was quickly informed about the crime in Teslic, which provided impetus for the State Security Center in Banja Luka to join the collection and checking of the information, in order to plan further actions.

Essentially, you were the leader of the operative group which participated in the arrest of the members of the paramilitary formation "Mice" in Teslic. Can you tell us how and why it was decided to arrest "Mice"?

A group of operatives led by me executed all encompassing and detailed collection of the information about the events in Teslic, that, unfortunately, went on for almost thirty days. Teslic was under jurisdiction of the State Security Center in Doboj, which also influenced belated inclusion of the State Security Center in Banja Luka in that action. When we collected enough information I informed Nedeljko Kesic, the then chief of the State Security Center in Banja Luka, and Stojan Zupljanin, the then chief of the Center for Security Services in Banja Luka. I presented the information together with State Security Service inspectors Goran Sainovic and Miladin Stjepanovic. They, as workers and honorable individuals contributed a lot that crimes in Teslic, and not only in Teslic, be stopped. In the meantime, I contacted Nikola Perisic, the then head of the Teslic municipality. He begged me, as a colleague and fellow inhabitant of Teslic, to urgently do something to liberate Teslic from devils, tutors, monsters and thieves from Doboj. Most of our work was done in secrecy, in order to protect, as much as possible, those who opposed "Mice". I personally set up one of the meetings Perisic had with Stojan Zupljanin and Nedeljko Kesic. That meeting was followed by another one, in which participated Stojan Zupljanin, Bedeljko Kesic, Dr. Vito Popovic, Colonel Milan Stevilovic, Branko Peric, the then prosecutor in Teslic, Nenad Kovacevic, the then head of the municipal court in Teslic, Stevan Markovic, the then chief of the Security Service Center Police in Banja Luka and yours truly. At that meeting we urgently made the decision to stop the crimes in Teslic and arrest the members of "Mice". Since I was originally from Teslic and had some experience in fighting against terrorist organizations, it was decided that I lead the action, in order to reduce the likelihood of casualties on both sides. I remember well that late Colonel Stevilovic, who knew me very well, insisted that I take charge of the whole operation. He provided manpower and technical means in order to make sure that the action was implemented as well as possible. I decided to recruit members of one platoon of the Military Police, several State Security agents, above all Milenko Savic, the current chief of the Public Security Service in Prnjavor, and naturally agents of the State Security Service, Sainovic and Stjepanovic. I had absolute trust in all of them, and I have maintained my trust in them until today. The very same day, Stojan Zupljanin appointed me for a temporary chief of the Public Security Service for Teslic.

How did the action go?

It is impossible to describe all the details. I'll give you a brief description, sticking only to the bare facts. Before the group set out on its way I had sent out the so-called scout group. Their task was to inform me about the state of the road to Teslic and establish contact with our collaborators in Teslic, who were supposed to receive our group and assist us in the arrests. The scouts reported that "Mice" had received that day a reinforcement of ten men from Doboj, and additional number of followers and supporters in Teslic. The reinforcement from Doboj was led by Slobodan Karaga, whose mother is a Muslim, and father, supposedly, a Serb. Scouts reported that "Mice" were expecting us and had already taken positions on the road to Banja Luka, at the place named Pribinic, as well as on the road Cecava-Teslic. The only passable road was through Rastusa. Without too much trouble we reached our destination in factory "Demos" in Teslic, where we quickly agreed about details in connection with the action. I am sorry that I cannot name all those who responded to our call to join us, but I cannot miss to mention on this occasion Lieutenant Dragan Jocic, Captain Veselin Medojevic, Captain Novo Skrebic, my friend from high school, Miodrag Jovicic, a.k.a. Micko, Ranko Djukaric and, why not, my brother Nenad, all of whom should be credited for the swift and successful end of the arrests. At about 5am we started the action from several directions towards the localities where "Mice" were quartered. The action was well synchronized and organized but, in spite of everything, unfortunately, there were two casualties, one each on both sides. I cannot forget the death of soldier Aleksandar Kljecanin, who was hit by a bullet only several meters away from me. He probably never dreamed that he would be killed by a Serb. If it can serve as a consolation for his family, he died courageously and honorably saving lives of his fellow citizens. Most of the members of the group "Mice" were arrested in hotel "Kardial". They offered fierce resistance from the hotel. Others were arrested in apartments of their concubines.

What did you find on the premises used by "Mice"?

It is difficult to list everything we found there. Just as an illustration, we found DM 50,000, about 1.5kg of gold jewelry, 1.8kg of silver jewelry, about 100 new TV sets, the same number of video recorders, ten coffee machines, large number of washing machines, bicycles and other house appliances. Besides that, we found about 300 new leather jackets, 58,640 crystal glasses, many pieces of clothing, and several weapons. We also established that before our arrival they had stolen and driven away 150 luxury cars and many more valuable items. The value of all the looted property was estimated at several million German Marks.

We found a much more horrendous scene in the rooms they used for torture of their victims. Believe me, such scenes can not be described nor depicted. They make your blood simply freeze in the veins. Such things cannot be forgotten. That should be a warning to all those who sometimes put something else before humanity.

Did you have problems in the Service after that action? Was there political pressure to have you dismissed?

I had a lot of problems in the Service, where I still work. I was fired in 1994 and there were several attempts at my life and numerous threats, which haven't stopped until today. I have been a plaintiff in a trial in Belgrade for three and a half years, in order to prove that I was a citizen of Yugoslavia. All that is a consequence of everything I did while saving lives. Can there be anything sadder from the fact that criminal charges in two lawsuits have been filed against me? One of the lawsuits states that I "undermined fighting morale of the Serb Army by spreading brotherhood and unity on the territory of the Republic of Srpska, specifically by releasing Muslims and Croats from camps and prisons". As an aggravating circumstance they list that during these releases I would kiss and say good bye to these Muslims and Croats. One cannot but wonder about limits of hatred and vindictiveness. Is it possible that as a nation we allowed to become a victim of a relatively small number of individuals, who gave themselves the right to call themselves Serb warriors, knights, heroes, volunteers, while in fact they were and remain criminals and outlaws. I hope that my name will eventually be cleared.

Who ordered that arrested members of "Mice" be transferred from the Tunjice prison to the prison in Doboj, and then released?

Branko Peric and Nenad Kovacevic can give you a definite answer to that question and I would rather not speculate. I only know that Public and State Security Services in Banja Luka were not involved in their release.

Is it true that "Mice" planned to execute another 148 citizens from Teslic?

Yes, we found that out during our investigation. It is true that the names of 148 persons from Teslic of various ethnic and political backgrounds were on the list of "undesirable" individuals. Your paper claimed that this had been known before the arrest action, but that is not correct. I even think that that claim was malicious and tendentious, since it appears as if the action was initiated only because "Mice" intended to execute a large number of Serbs. We knew well who was held in improvised prisons in Teslic. We engaged in the action in order to save innocent prisoners and prevent new crimes.

You have the reputation of a man who during the war opposed persecution of people based on their ethnicity. Why did you and those like you fail to prevent a pogrom of non-Serb population?

I must admit that that is an interesting and a difficult question. First, I must stress that I consider crime to be a universal evil, which as such affects all people irrespective of their nationality or political views. There is no higher interest that can justify any crime. It is the duty of every nation whose co-nationals have committed a crime to investigate and punish those crimes. Without such catharsis there can be no progress. That is a precondition to live in peace next to each other and with each other. If a man has even a shred of pride, dignity, honesty and courage, he must not remain silent in front of the facts he disapproves of. All of this has been already said and I fully agree with it. I am one of those, and there were a lot of us, who drew a clear line between patriotism and nationalism and an even clearer line between patriotism and fascism. It is true that there were attempts at organized resistance to all sorts of crimes. Late Colonel Stevilovic worked on the establishment of a strong unit for fighting against outlaws and members of paramilitary units within the Republic of Srpska. We from the State Security Service actively supported the establishment of such a unit. Unfortunately, deaths of Colonel Stevilovic and Stevan Markovic left a huge void in that sense. Although we failed to set up a wider defense block for struggle against internal tumors in the Republic of Srpska, the department of State Security which I led, all the time during the war opposed all ways of maltreatment of citizens of other ethnicity. We saved people from Brod, Doboj, Modrica, Teslic, Prnjavor, Kozarac, all the way to Sanski Most. We saved even more people in Banja Luka, Mrkonjic Grad and other towns in the Republic of Srpska. We were also very active in attempts to save Serbs during their escape from Croatia. We did all of that with the approval of Nedeljko Kesic and Stojan Zupljanin. It would not be fair to omit the contribution that we received for such activities from Mirko Lazovic, the then chief of the State Security Department of Serbia. One of the reasons we partly failed in our intentions was that our persecutors had their counterparts on the opposing sides, so that it was impossible for one side to play a saint while on the other sides they were flashing knives in front of which those who could escaped and those who could not ended up as victims. It was a difficult situation and the basic goal was to save as many individuals as possible. You must admit that there is a greater evil from exile and persecution. We must not forget that members of the Serb people, in spite of a horrible downfall in which we found ourselves, organized the largest number of actions to save individuals of different ethnicity. I know that you expect from me to say that there was not enough understanding in the highest political circles in the Republic of Srpska for that type of engagement. That is true to a certain extent, but local irresponsibility, which was difficult to control, was a much more important contributing factor. I personally believe that mediocre individuals and blinded lunatics floated to the political surface in many places during that period. It was unlikely that such individuals would turn into visionaries and sages. Jesters, criminals, maniacs, and swindlers of all sorts became prosecutors, judges and executors, who literally decided about life and death. That was the most terrifying side of the Serb story.

Did you inform your superiors about everything you encountered in service, especially about crimes? If you did, do you know whether your information reached the political and military leadership of the Republic of Srpska?

Definitely. That was my professional and humane obligation. Thanks to that we received approvals to get involved in rescue operations in those cases where we were likely to succeed.

Regarding the second part of the question, whether my information reached the political and military leadership of the Republic of Srpska, I do not know for sure. I assume that most of it did reach them, since some of this information definitely backfired, so that I had a lot of problems. I wouldn't wish my fate on anyone else, at least as far as persecution, devaluation and minimization is concerned. I forgave everything to everyone. It is human to forgive, as it is human to repent.

Please, since we are talking about this issue, I would like it if you published that our rescue actions in which we rescued non-Serbs had support of the then president of the Republic of Srpska, Radovan Karadzic. I met him thrice. He knew who I was, what I did and that I was a Communist. He always emphasized that everything must be done in order to protect civilians of any ethnicity. He even personally intervened to help certain individuals. I remember that on several occasions he intervened on behalf of Professor Dr. Hamzo Mujagic and others, whose names I cannot recall at the moment.

He was upset with me because of other things. I was slandered in 1994 as a supporter of the Serbian Police and Slobodan Milosevic, which contributed to my falling into disfavor. Imagine, malicious individuals alleged that I was a member of a secret group set up by the Serbian Police with the goal of overthrowing president Karadzic. In spite of tragic consequences for many people because of that episode, that stupid theory makes me laugh even today. Had president Karadzic been dissatisfied with my involvement regarding rescue of Muslims and Croats, he would have pulled the rug under my feet in 1992. Let us at least be sensible now. Problems came from other high officials. I do not bear a grudge against Karadzic. I believe that he heard more constant complaints against me than I did. It is true that after that, for a while I had the status of an ordinary stateless person. Fortunately, I managed to prove that I was a citizen of FR Yugoslavia. Had I worked for anyone in Serbia, would I have needed three and a half years in the courts to settle my status?

What role did the then leaderships of the Doboj and Teslic municipalities play in the events in Teslic?

I believe that the Teslic municipal leadership intended to bring to Teslic people from outside to introduce order in an already rather chaotic situation. Unfortunately, they had no idea that they were bringing in unrestrained beasts without any human or moral criteria. Some officials from Teslic soon realized their mistake in approaching Doboj for help. Nikola Perisic was among them. That is the truth and no one has the right to hide it. Some say that he laughed, and I don't know why and at whom he may have laughed, but in my presence he begged and pleaded for help. As far as the Doboj municipal leadership is concerned I do not know what was their relationship with "Mice" before their arrival to Teslic, but I know that they celebrated their release from prison. I received at the time threats from many members of the Doboj municipal leadership. The worst threats came from Milovan Stankovic and Mirko Slavujica, the current chief of the Security Service Center in Doboj. I know why they did that. Mirko's son was a member of "Mice" and the indictment gives a detalied description of what he did in Teslic. Stankovic threatened that he would pulverize Teslic unless we released "Mice" from custody. I told him then that he may be a legend in Doboj, but that he was no different than "Mice" to me. I claim that "Mice" were a criminal gang, organized exclusively to steal for others and for themselves. Those others were their superiors. Finally, ask Colonel Dejan Bilanovic why he did not confront "Mice". He was the commander of the Teslic Brigade of the Army of Srpska at the time. The brigade had 6,000 soldiers. Had he wanted he could have easily stopped crimes committed by "Mice". I keep insisting that he bears main responsibility for everything that happened in Teslic. He had to find strength and courage to confront them. He refused even to join us when we arrested them. Isn't there something suspicious about that?

Who are "Red Berets"? What kind of formation was that and who controlled it? You should know that as one of the officials in the then State Security Service...

A person does not have to be original in order to be wise, or appear wise. My answer to this question is identical to that offered by Predrag Radic in the interview published in one of your recent issues. He gave an excellent summary of the reasons which led to the founding of the Serbian Defense Forces and, I would add, "Red Berets". Those units completed some very honorable tasks. Wherever they were controlled by the Army of the Republic of Srpska (VRS) there were no problems. In some places they got out of control and turned into rabid packs. I know that these units were established with best possible intentions, while those who founded and commanded them should be held responsible for their actions. It is unfair to condemn a whole nation because of, relatively speaking, a small percentage of responsible and guilty individuals. I emphasize that I do not approve their, potential, crimes, but I also want to emphasize that in certain localities such units had a positive role at the beginning of the war. There were cases that many informal groups would present themselves as "Red Berets". They liked that because they had heard that "Red Berets" had the best-trained soldiers. Honestly, I believe that most of those self-declared "Red Berets" were not aware of the real sense and goal of the existence of such formations. Unfortunately, the real "Red Berets" were and still are held responsible for everything that those local, mini "Red Berets" did, even though the real "Red Berets" units proved themselves on the front, rather than behind the lines where there was no real fighting. Various bums used impotence of local authorities to impose their will and terror. This problem deserves a deeper analysis, which is to a certain extent superfluous, at least as far as the events in Teslic are concerned.

You are reputed to have had good relations with Marko Lazovic, the then assistance of Jovica Stanisic, the chief of the Serbian State Security Service. If that is true, how come you were dismissed from the Service?

It is true that I had close relations with Marko Lazovic, to whom I owe human and professional gratitude for his support. Unfortunately, he left the Service in 1994, when my problems in the Republic of Srpska reached their culmination. After the departure of Marko Lazovic I found no support in the Serbian State Security Service, which pushed me in a sort of a limbo. In Serbia I was considered to be an agent of the Republic of Srpska, extremist Communist and even more extremist pacifist. Because of all of that they kept me far away from the Service. At the same time, in the Republic of Srpska, I was portrayed as a pro-Serbian cadre, sympathizer of Milosevic, acquaintance of Mira Markovic, Serbian agent and what not. And in all that time I always knew who I was and what I was doing. I was no less a patriot in 1991 than today. It is true that I shall never consider FR Yugoslavia a foreign state and that I will always fight against crime, regardless of the ethnicity of the culprits. I regret that we do not have time to recapitulate all the crimes committed by the USA in the last 50 years. We would quickly come to the conclusion that in spite of horrendous crimes this region is a kindergarten in comparison with what Americans and many others who now lecture us about democracy have done. When all of that is known, does my destiny matter at all?

Do you know what happened with the former members of "Mice"? Do you know where they are and what they are doing?

I finished with "Mice" in 1992. Since then I've received threats from them and I take those threats seriously. I know that most of them are wealthy, some are even in positions of authority, while others are private businessmen. Some have been active in smuggling with the Muslim side ever since they came out of prison. They sold everything, from cigarettes to weapons, to Muslims. There is evidence for that. The most recent articles in your newspaper have disturbed them quite a lot and they are not aware that you said very little in comparison with the material available to the Tribunal in the Hague. It is another matter who sent the file of that case to the Hague. But the material in the file has been collected professionally, with a lot of detail and for that time enviable professional perfection. I still believe that "Mice" should be tried in the Republic of Srpska, since they are scum whose main motivation was theft rather than anything having to do with the war.

Serbs are not the Only Criminals, but the Greatest Losers

In Croatia, the process of criminal preparation became even before 1991. As early as then, centers for training similar to the one in Kerestinec were formed. In those centers "the finest members of the Croatian people" were taught skills for systematic and industrial murder of members of other ethnic groups. It is sad that the media in the Republic of Srpska and FRY write very little or nothing about that, while the whole studies are written about the crimes committed by Serbs, which makes the impression that members of other ethnic groups were innocent victims of Serb hegemony and Serb aspirations for the creation of Greater Serbia. The truth is completely different.

We need to say once and for all that Serbs tried to avoid war at all costs and they lost the most in the war. By analyzing the period up to fifteen years in the past, the impression one gets is that Serb politicians made the biggest mistake by trying to save the already shaky former Yugoslavia, which was undermined from within and without. During all that time, other ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia were working on national homogenization so that, objectively speaking, they started the war much better organized and prepared, with clearly defined national and other interests. Unfortunately, the Serb people, better said Serb leaders, until this day haven't defined these interests. Thousands of other factors contributed to transform the events in the former Yugoslavia into one of the bloodiest dramas in the history of human civilization or barbarism. I hope that these topics will also find place on the pages of your magazine, in order to give an objective picture of the events which have received connotations of unbelievable, surprising, cruel, monstrous, bloody, dirty, thieving and what not.

Apology to my Sister Nada