I returned to Croatia to attend the first conference of HDZ [Croatian democratic Union, ruling party in Croatia]; afterwards, HDZ won in the election and the President [Tudjman] requested that either I or Ante Beljo, or both of us, stay in Croatia. We were supposed to take over some position with importance for the Croatian emigrants. We were all supposed to write our biographies, so I wrote Siroki Brijeg, Croatia, as is written on my birth certificate. I couldn't write differently. Of course, a certain journalist didn't like that; she said that Siroki Brijeg didn't exist. It didn't exist in her mind, because her mind is controlled by those who in 1953 abolished the name Siroki Brijeg. She knows better than me who these people are. But we brought the name back in 1991 when we won in the elections in Bosnia-Hercegovina; for me Bosnia-Hercegovina is a also the state of Croatian people and for me it is Croatia. For a Bosniak it can be Bosnia, and for a Serb whatever, but according to its constitution it is also the state of Croatian people and as such I consider it to be my homeland. [during W.W.II Bosnia-Hercegovina was a part of NDH, or independent state of Croatia, a fasist puppet state established by the Croatian fascists, Ustashe. Ustashe had active support of a part of Catholic clergy in Bosnia and Croatia, despite murders of thousands Serb and Jewish civilians. Siroki Brijeg, the site of one of the oldest Catholic monasteries in Bosnia, was one of the Ustashe strongholds. After the war, some proportion of the population, especially those who were involved with the Ustashe movement, escaped from Yugoslavia. The new, communist authorities changed the name of the town to Listica and shut down the monastery. This area remained the hotbed of Croatian nationalism and consequently many locals suffered persecution during the communist rule. Today, many Hercegovci, as the locals are called in Croatian, are in important positions in Croatian leadership. Perhaps not surprisingly, since 1990, some so-called "patriotic" Croats, many of them with links to the Ustashe movement, have led an effort to whitewash this portion of the Croatian history and deny the fascist nature of the Ustashe movement and its crimes against Serbs, Jews and Gypsies.]
(..)Minister, some people, who were dissidents and whom we trusted and treated as patriots today behave totally differently. One of them wrote a sentence in which he wonders, and in an editorial of a daily paper, if there is any sense in the existence of the Croatian state?
Probably, a lot of you who lived in Croatia were disappointed in a way. Every man had his own vision of the free Croatia, and probably a large portion of people had an idea of the role they wished to play in the free Croatia. The same is true for the Croatian emigrants. Several names appear a lot in the media but that does not surprise me, because these people were like that when they lived abroad. Some people [unpleasantly] surprised me; they either can't find their bearings or there is something else behind their actions. They came to Croatia, offered their services, and then expected that Croatia simply had to accept their offer and appoint them to a position where there need not do any work. They will probably point out that I was appointed to an important position in 1990, when I returned to Croatia, but I didn't ask for that. That is not an excuse, but that's the way it is. The number of high level positions is limited. Only one person can unite all those functions and it is justified to ask who is capable of doing that and for how long. Many of them came to Croatia and couldn't accept that they were not in positions which they thought "belonged" to them. It was easy to act abroad. That is completely different than work in an orderly society. In emigration, with a little money and some talent and interest, anyone can attract audience and following. Now they think, since they've been doing that for years (some of them for 30-40 years) that they are Croatian great men. And imagine: he returned to Zagreb and Zagreb is quiet! If by some accident, that person joined a party which had no chances on the political scene, had no program, no trust of the people, it absolutely makes sense that they are now disappointed. I wasn't disappointed by them. I was simply surprised that they were unable to find their place in the reconstruction of Croatia. Probably a great part of the people who lived in Croatia shares my feelings.
You are talking about their personal gain, not about Croatia and patriotism?
A lot of them only care for personal gain. But we couldn't say that Marko Veselica only cares for personal gain and wants to become the president of Croatia because of that; the same is true for Gabelica. It all depends on whether they can win the trust of the people. However, that cannot be compared with Gotovac's approach. Gotovac [leader of the Croatian Social Liberal party] had a lecture in March or April of 1990, in Toronto; we organized the lecture, Kikas, Zdunic, Beljo, we, that is HDZ. We paid $100 for the ticket, I drove 500 kilometres from Ottawa to Toronto to hear Gotovac speak, and he says: "There can be no historic borders! Who thinks otherwise is a criminal!" That's what he said to us! We have that on a video.
After the demise of Croatian spring in 1971 [liberalizing and nationalist movement within Croatian comminist party led by Ms. Dabcevic-Kucar and Mr. Tripalo; soon enough supressed by Tito, Yugoslav communist dictator 1945-80] and the arrests and trials which followed, Canadian émigrés and you yourself assisted in different ways many of those who ended up in jail. You didn't make differences between the then Croatian dissidents, you equally strongly supported Veselica, Tudjman, Busic, Budisa, Gotovac, Sosic, Cicak, Paradzik and many others; you had the same reaction to the first democratic changes in Croatia in 1989, when you approached with equal attention all political leaders who travelled from Croatia to Canada and who presented their political programmes, offering them to the Croatian people both in the homeland and abroad. What made you decide to give your trust to Dr. Tudjman and HDZ, as the majority of Canadian Croats, and not those who arrived after him?
For years, depending on how long ago we had left Croatia, as if from a cage, or over a wire fence, we peeked into Croatia. We watched and hoped for changes and a chance to return home. With the first signs of freer times in the future, some Croatian leaders were supposed to come and speak in Canada. Out of that group, we had only heard for Savka Dabcevic-Kucar. She was the only one with some authority. Dr. Franjo Tudman arrived for the first time in June 1987. He was the first politician we met, and we figured out a way for him to visit Canada. At first, in comparison with Savka, Gotovac, Budisa, Tripalo and many others, he had no chance, especially because of his past. We met him in the same way as all the others after that: we offered him to speak. We let anyone, who wanted to do so, come over to Canada and speak to us. Later, Goldstein, Gotovac, Vlado Veselica, Ante Kovacevic also came. Who ever wanted to speak, we brought them to Canada and paid for their expenses. I met the president, Dr. Franjo Tudjman, during his first visit to Canada, and the rest is history. Imagine how hard it was for someone coming from Siroki Brijeg, who lost the family, to meet a former general [of Tito's partisans]. It was hard to say: this is the right person [for Croatia]. During first Dr. Tudjman's visit, only 10% of us Croats came to hear him speak, while the remaining 90% condemned me as the organizer for bringing him over. They told me: "Who are you bringing here?" However, I talked with the President, and asked him about the chances for the future. I realized that he had a vision, a plan and a programme. The question was only if he was going to find enough people and funds to implement that programme. As the other emissaries made it to Canada later, we became more and more disappointed. Finally, the Coalition of Popular Accord [Ms. Dabcevic-Kucar's party, today Croatian Popular Party] came. Although I had already made my decision I went their promotion in Toronto, all the way from Zagreb. I realized that they had no chance.
What were reactions to Dr. Tudjman's first public appearance, his speech at the Croatian Writers Society. Apparently, some Croatian emigrants took that to be a provocation, exactly because Dr. Franjo Tudjman used to be a general in their [communist partisan] army; hence, some emigrants thought that his speech was strange. You said that something in you broke after you spoke to Dr. Tudjman.
We had already decided by then. We saw Tudjman as a man who would lead us to Croatia. Here's a story of one of the Croatian emigrants. Every November 29 (it was their "holiday") we organized demonstrations in front of Yugoslav embassy. The year when Tito died, one elderly gentlemen, a well respected Croat, judge during NDH, university professor in Canada, asked me - 'who are you demonstrating against when Tito is dead?' He saw Tito as an opponent! I didn't have that problem. Hundreds of times I repeated in our meetings: if Croats choose communism, and Croatia is free, I will go back! If the will of Croatian people is communism, I would return and fight. But as long as another capital [instead of Zagreb] orders what we should be in Croatia, that is unacceptable!
(...)
What is the link between Croatian culture and Croatian Army? We know that our greatest warriors were Petar Zrinski who wrote a book "Mermaid of the Adriatic"; we know who the dukes of the Dubrovnik republic were, for example one of the greatest Croatian poets, Ivan Bunic Vucic; there is a historical link between poets and warriors. Are there examples of such a connection today? Real Croatian writer cannot fail to visit the battleground, where his compatriots are dying, cannot fail to think and write about that.
This is the time of rebirth. All Croatian artists - writers, singers, actors - reacted wonderfully. Whenever I met Petar Segedin, who was to old to carry a gun, I could see in his face that he was happy for our military successes. So many young men volunteered and joined the Croatian Army, and were promoted to important commanding posts. Still, we should remember the facts. In 1991, there was no Army. Besides, when the army was established, I led it although I had no military experience of any kind. Croatian people rose. Now in the post-war period, people who were writers, but were not professional soldiers, as Veljko Barbieri, Ivan Tolj and others, are still active Croatian soldiers. Probably even they themselves never dreamed that they would end up in the Army.(...)
One last question. Are you satisfied with the demobilization of the occupying [Serb] forces in the Danube valley region [in eastern Croatia]? How much data is there about the demobilization and can we really believe that heavy weapons were pulled out of the region?
I was asked what I considered to be the greatest success of Croatian politics since 1990. Exactly that: without sacrificing a single life, we reached the Danube. They are aware that it is only a question of time, when we will return there. One should have in mind the role of the United Nations: they don't want this process to finish too soon, since their next assignment will be somewhere in Rwanda. Yes, but we will be on our Danube.
Translated on 1/30/97