Feral Tribune, 2/6/95, Split, Croatia
Edo Murtic is a Croatian painter, whose one thousand paintings are exhibited in all the best galleries around the world. The recipient of numerous domestic and foreign prizes, Murtic also possesses am enviable collection of decorations among which he points out: President of Italy's Golden Plaque Faenze, AVNOJ Prize ``Vladimir Nazor", Pope Paul VI Silver Medal and Legion d'Honeur. Although it may not seem so, due to the sporadic reporting in the domestic media, Murtic still works and exhibits without a pause. His latest exhibition in Italy, almost totally ignored at home, was named ``Why the War?"
Q: Indeed, why then the war?
- That is my question, and question of all of us, which unfortunately does not have an answer. I only documented with that exhibition the state I am in, the absolute unacceptability of crime; and a war is a crime. That is something I can not comprehend; only primitive nations or tribes solve their problems in such a way. A war is the fastest and easiest way to crime.
Q: Many claim today that it was obvious that the war was inevitable , because we lived in an ``unnatural community." Could you sense that enormous hatered ?
- Never, not even in a dream.
Q: Let us return to the beginning. Why do Croatian media ignore you? What have you done wrong?
- I do not know, I do not understand. I work as before, exhibit at home and abroad. I have had a whole series of exhibitions abroad during the last few years, from Amsterdam to Indonesia, and that is why I do not understand the domestic media silence. Anyway, you should ask them.
Q: Could this be a case of political ostracism of those refusing to follow the regime's line?
- Listen, an official in the ministry of culture, Mrs. Dasa Bradicic, stated in a function, in front of twenty or so of my younger colleagues, that Murtic was favored by the communist authorities. Therefore, she reasoned, it was normal that I was today hampered in my work. That could be the answer to your question. By the way, this person was highly regarded in the previous system as a ``politically suitable" comrade and official.
Q: Do you think that it would have been natural for president Tudjman to go and bow to the victims of Jasenovac [largest concentration camp in Croatia during the WWII], instead of manipulating the numbers of those who died in that camp? This has encouraged those who would rehabilitate Independent State of Croatia (ISC) [ISC (Nezavisna Drzave Hrvatska(NDH) in Croatian) was a Nazi puppet state from 1941 to 1945; it was run by Croatian fascist movement - Ustashe in Croatian], and lead to ``soft" interviews, like the one with the commander of Jasenovac, which has recently been published.
- That only shows the state of spirit and politics which can cost us dearly. When somebody today claims that the number of people murdered in Jasenovac was 25,000 rather than 700,000, that does not diminish the magnitude of the crime. It is not the numbers but the act that matters. I shall tell you how I experienced the first days of ISC. As a young man, I went with my late mother to the countryside to buy potatoes. Our train left Zagreb early in the morning and in the blue expanse of that morning I suddenly noticed a patch, similar to the tennis court, which was absolutely white. And then I saw an arm protruding from that whiteness, and than a head, hair ... It was a scene of slaughter. Ustashe killed the Serbs from the village of Gutovac, threw them in a pit and poured over quicklime. Therefore whiteness. It was the first shock I experienced in ``our" independent state and since, you know, the fear from that state has always been present. I am terrified by what might happen. Fortunately, we are today under the magnifying glass, but I tell you, if we were not, that horror could happen again today.
Q: It seems that even the regime is no longer capable of controlling its radical members?
- That is the problem. I have recently had a conversation with one of the leading members of the Croatian Democratic Union (CDU), incidentally an ex-Partisan from the province of Kosovo [part of Serbia], who totally dismayed said: "Do you see what is going on, and those Ustashe ...?!" I told him: "Excuse me but I did not bring them back to life, and besides you will be the first one to go tomorrow. I might be left alone since I am only a painter".
- I was and I stayed a free artist; my political views must not be used against my work or the work of any other artist.
Q: How do you see the Croatian culture today, and do you think that the so called patriotic art is the only one currently in favor?
- It is hard to call that art, since it is above all an elementary primitivism and affected naivete. I would like to mention a text by Danilo Kis about folk art, in which he says that when folk art, not in a traditional value sense, turns into a myth, that is when the fascism appears. What is created today in Croatia is valued not according to its quality, but according to the amount of nationalistic ardor it contains, regardless of how primitive it may be.
Q: How do you react to incessant attacks on the most illustrious Croatian Cultural Institutions and their leading members?
- Every normal country is proud of its artists and scientists, and those institutions form the backbone of Croatia, since everything else will pass anyway. For example, you may not agree with Vlado Gotovac's political views, but you cannot question the artistic value of his work. Take Franco's Spain as an example; Picasso refused to return to Spain as long as fascists were in power; however, Franco copiously used Picasso in all exhibitions of the Spanish art throughout the world. Therefore, in spite of Picasso being a staunch opponent of Franco's regime, Fanco never tried to deny him a place in the ouvre of the Spanish art.
Q: Do you think that the authorities are afraid of the people who mean something in arts, culture, society?
- That is absolutely correct. I personally find it very suspicious, that today's regime promotes Vinko Nikolic, a fascist and believer in Pavelic's [Ante Pavelic, leader of Croatian fascists and ISC during the WWII] ideology. Until recently, he was writing odes to the Poglavnik [Croatian fascist term corresponding to German Fuhrer, ie. leader], and today is supposed to be our idol. This man maintains that we were in darkness from 1945 till 1990, and that nothing significant occurred in Croatian culture. These are untrue and foolish statements.
Q: ``Reevaluation of history" is currently fashionable, Mile Budak is glorified while Krleza is questioned; so much that the minister for culture declares that Krleza should be excluded from school texts. Do you have a comment?
- You know, my generation grew up with Krleza's values. We wanted social justice, artistic freedom and freedom in general; those were Krleza's messages. He is a giant and irreplaceable in our culture. That is why it is simply idiotic for the minister for culture to argue for the reevaluation of Krleza's works. But above all, I do not understand how the president of the Republic can appoint these people, especially since he considers himself to be a scholar on Krleza. Difference in literary value between writing of Krleza and Mile Budak is so large that it is pointless to even discuss it. The fact that Mile Budak, who was our Goebbels is today turned into a saint is a dangerous stupidity of the political leadership. Croatia cannot be built in that tradition. It is sad that we discuss and talk about that at all.
Q: You were a member of the Cultural Workers Congress in Topusko [town in Croatia] more that 50 years ago. Do you think that such congress could take place today?
- The situation today is significantly different. Topusko was a message of antifascism, a cry for the free world and artistic freedom. It was a message from an oppressed people fighting for their freedom together with other nations of the world. Therefore, the situation then was clear and unequivocal. Today, we live in a situation in which we do not know who or where we are, due to the encouragement of fascism, against which we fought then, believing that it would never come back. We can witness how some people proudly proclaim that their fathers were Ustashe and that they think todays Croatia should be a continuation of Pavelic's ISC. I find this unbelievable and also think that any serious artist cannot accept it.
Q: How did you react to the change of the Zagreb's Victims of Fascism Square's name?
- I think that was one of president Tudjman's greatest mistakes. The question of antifascism is crucial for Croatia, which had to build its future on a basis of its participation in the antifascist coalition. The stripping of the Victims of Fascism Square's name is a disgrace. It was the symbol of a time and a nation. It spits in the face of all antifascists who gave their lives for the freedom of my nation and the world.
Q: A whole string of such vulgar moves by the authorities has taken place: from changing the names of streets and squares to decorating the Ustashe henchmen?
- You know, I asked my friends in Germany if it would be possible to name a street or a square after Goring or Goebbels in that country. They replied that it was crazy even as an idea. And here I see units of Croatian Army bear names of war criminals: Maks Luburic, Rafael Boban and Jure Francetic. I have even seen tanks with pictures of Ante Pavelic. I could not believe my eyes. Anyway, what can one think after watching a TV program in which the president of CDU of Herzeg-Bosna [Croatian self proclaimed state in Bosnia-Hercegovina] is greeted with the fascist raised arm salute at the meeting of Croatian Army in Hercegovina? These are unimaginable things something our president should certainly think about for his own sake. I knew him as an antifascist. How can he allow that something like that happens in his country?
Q: Why do you think Tudjman allows that?
- I do not know, although I have often thought about it.
Q: Maybe he really believes in ``reconciliation" between Ustashe [Croatian fascists during the WWII] and Partisans [Yugoslav communist led resistance movement during the WWII]?
- These two ideologies cannot be reconciled; they are total opposites, like oil and water.
Q: Maybe he is trying to satisfy the ``other side"?
- Which other side? If a group of fascists is that other side, I do not want to be anywhere close to it.
Q: For decades you have been a close friend of citizen Franjo Tudjman. Are in you in contact with the president today?
- Hardly. I only heard and saw on TV that my paintings were removed from the walls of the President's Residence.
Q: A 50th anniversary of the Auschwitz liberation has recently been commemorated. Some 30 statesmen, Nobel Prize winners etc., traveled to Poland. Do you think the President of Croatia should have been there as well?
- If he had wanted, he would have gone there. But to send Mihanovic and Kujundzic, please ...?!
Q: Do you think that division on right and left in politics is useless today?
-Top intellectuals, in America and elsewhere, are leftist [liberals] and have a total freedom of speech and are not afraid of being prosecuted for their opinions. That for me is the left [liberalism]. It is not a political, but a life philosophy. I think that the left is the future everywhere in the world; the world could not progress without such system of beliefs, which are banned or negated here. Anyway, has not the social justice been the product of the left? I remember a statement by Mate Granic [Croatian Minister of Foreign Affairs] about how his father, a shepard with a flock of 30 sheep in Makarska area, put seven of his sons through school. I ask you, in which other country could a shepard afford to educate so many of his children?
Q: how do you see today that ``period of darkness" and how did you perceive Tito? As a dictator only?
- No, totally differently, and people who claim [that Tito was only a dictator] do not want to admit that when Tito broke with Stalin [in 1948], we demonstrated to the whole world that socialism can be totally different, more humane society [then in the Soviet Union]. It is true that the fear of disintegration of Yugoslavia engendered restrictive and police measures, but for the last twenty years we were quickly forging ahead. Some reply that the other countries progressed as well. They did, but it is forgotten that at the end of WWII we had maybe 20km [12m] of asphalt around Zagreb; we had nothing and built everything during the last 20-30 years. Besides, look at what is being destroyed in Bosnia - new buildings, same as anywhere in the world. These are not hovels and shanty towns.
Q: Are you not afraid of being accused of Yugo nostalgia?
- You know, I feel constrained by any space, but I have never been afraid to state, as is written in my [exhibition] catalogues, that I am a Croatian painter. I have never hidden from it and have never been afraid of stating that, but it is a fact that I was a member of the Yugoslav community, whatever it was. That community had the world's respect. What does Yugo nostalgia mean? People can be nostalgic for their youth, loves, not for a political situation.
Q: Do you believe in a renewed communication of people from the ex-Yugoslav space?
- In spite of everything, sooner or later we shall have to correspond again. People will have to find each other, regardless of whether we love each other or not. We cannot put Croatia in a helicopter and drop it somewhere in the southern seas and make an island of her. We will have to take into account spiritual, linguistic and cultural links.
Q: You were a student in Belgrade; are you still in contact with your old
friends?
- There are a number of people whom I love and admire, and who remain the same; people to whom every kind of nationalism is foreign and who were not infected by this madness in Serbia. Therefore, I do not have that feeling of break up, because I think they, my friends in Serbia, are disabled like us.
Q: Poets used to be your friends, from Jure Kastelan and Oskar Davico to Ivan Goran Kovacic and Vlado Gotovac, whose poetry book you recently illustrated. You also illustrated Goran's poem ``Jama"[``Ravine"]; How do you react to all those politically charged excavations of mass graves?
- Nobody in his clear mind would try to gain political capital from that. If we really want to do that, then let us do it scientifically, instead of trying to use the bones to write new myths. Things would look totally different from the way in which they are presented today.
Q: What is your reaction to the behavior of your colleagues with respect to the topics of our conversation; why are the ones who would have something to say silent?
- It is hard to generalize; I have been terribly disappointed in some of them and some, of whom I expected it the least, proved to be brave. Still, do not forget that the fear here is palpable and real and that not exactly benign things happen, especially in small towns and in the hinterland.
Q: What could and how wake up the Croatian public?
- It is hard to talk about the Croatian public, so I shall again relate some of my experiences. I was fourteen when King Alexander [ king of Yugoslavia between the WWI and WWII. A Serb. Assassinated by the Croatian fascists in France ] was murdered. The inhabitants of Zagreb came out in their thousands to meet the train which took the King's coffin to Belgrade, from the Sava bridge to Dubrave. They kneeled next to the railroad tracks and cried, a group of [Catholic] nuns next to me wept for their King. The Germans came and we greeted them with flowers. The partisans came. Zagreb was on her feet, elated. Tito died. The whole Zagreb cried, hundreds of thousands were singing ``for every good word" and these are the facts. And that is a picture of us, Croatians.