interview by Miljenko JERGOVIC
KAJIN: Yes, it seems I was restrained, but you should be aware that after the caution I was simply not allowed to participate in the debate on the floor. That is the explanation for my silence. Simply, there was nothing I could do. I can only say that I did not expect that a break in the work that followed my appearance would have such tumultuous consequences.
But, does not the ruling coalition of six, or at least some of its representatives, in that manner publicly endorse Tudman's policy towards Bosnia and assist in hiding of its consequences?
It is tragic that people, and this time that was me, who warn about the madness of the Croatian state's and military's adventure in Bosnia end up with various sorts of reprimands. As if nothing has changed since January 3. It should not be forgotten that not only some Croats from Bosnia-Hercegovina, but also some Croats from Croatia were sucked into that adventure, because we definitely participated in that war. Therefore, this is not only a story about a neighboring state, but also about this state and its policies. One would think that someone should be held responsible for all that and that certain things that were deliberately obfuscated during Tudman's rule should be cleared up. However, we who warn about that are still treated as traitors, while people who determined the framework of that demented policy have become and still are patriots. From my point of view, their policy was, besides everything else, against the interests of this state. All those patriots, together with their pawns and people who are today kept in various investigative prisons, were decorated by all sorts of patriotic state decorations, while the people who opposed the policy towards Bosnia have until today been decorated only with various troubles.
Frankly speaking, I really cannot fully understand that. That caution is totally irrelevant for me because I as a representative in the parliament cannot experience anything worse than to be denied the right to speak in a certain debate. However, a reprimand for me, who talks about the Croatian aggression is an amnesty for an anti-Croatian policy that inflicted a lot of damage on Croatia and because of which the Croat and Bosniak peoples in Bosnia-Hercegovina suffered a lot. I do not know why some colleagues from the coalition of six behave the way they do. Could the reason be that that policy was implemented during the National Unity government and was in a way conceived at that time? Really, I do not know. Didn't the people who were in that government and today again participate in the government, leave the National Unity Government exactly because of their opposition to the Croatian policy in Bosnia? But whatever the truth, whatever the motivation leading some people, it is undeniable that in year 2000 Croatia is still not able to take the step that is demanded from Vojislav Kostunica. I do not think that Kostunica can be transformed into a Serb Willy Brandt and apologize for everything the Serb military did in Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina, but we should also openly say that Croatia also does not have its Willy Brandt, who would at least admit that what happened in Bosnia-Hercegovina did indeed happen. We expect from Kostunica something for which we do not have enough courage. It is true that political parties and people who today rule Croatia did not support Tudman's policy towards Bosnia, and even condemned it at the time, but I do not understand why no one has the strength and human courage to call the things by their real name and to apologize for everything that has been done on behalf of this state in the neighboring state.
Why are the authorities afraid of generals who write letters if the generals do not enjoy the support of a significant number of citizens, and so far it is clear that they do not?
If there is something that can be labeled as fear, then that something is definitely based on the popular support. The ruling structures rather unnecessarily and for far to long have been tolerating the irrational behavior of some people and the remnants of the former regime, and as a rule they do that to their own detriment. However, it is also true that general's letters are very useful when certain negative or failed government's measures in the economy need to be justified. However, by trying to be conciliatory or even by courting these elements, the new authorities are irreparably damaging this country. By dealing with the past non-stop we are simply losing our future. It is neglected that today the citizens do not care that much about the views of those notorious generals or Ciro Blazevic's babbling, but they want to know how they are supposed to buy a tracksuit for their kids and who is going to pay for a school snack. It is sad that various "general's" stories and intrigues have a much easier time initiating a discussion in the Parliament than much more important topics that affect the life and existence of ordinary citizens. It is incredibly difficult to even initiate the discussion about the right way to change our terrible Croatian daily existence in which every tenth citizen lives on 600 kunas [$67] a month, and every third citizens on 1,200 kunas [$135] a month. According to the World Bank data in this country almost 40 percent of citizens live in dire poverty, although our statistics only admits to nine percent. As if that figure offers consolation and it is not a problem if nine percent of our compatriots struggle to survive. But whatever criteria used in these calculations, hopefully someone in these authorities should realize that it is incredibly hard to survive on either 600 or 1,200 kunas a month and that that money is simply not enough for life. I think that people in the government should spend some time thinking about the quality of life on 1,200 kunas a month before they make their decisions.
I think that the answer to that question should be sought in some of the current conditions. Before January 3 the six had only one clear goal - to remove the HDZ from power. It seems that beyond that there was no vision. It seems that no one seriously thought about how to move the economy from lethargy and downfall, how to activate the judiciary and how to transform the dissatisfaction and frustration of citizens accumulated over many years into something positive and constructive; how to inspire citizens to abandon despair for enthusiasm. One should be fair and mention some positive economic results achieved during the last nine months, but we cannot continuously pretend to be blind and deaf and ignore the fact that even today a great majority of citizens lives worse than a year ago, that the prices of electricity and gasoline have increased, as well as those of many staple foods. The government must realize very soon that the burden of recovery cannot and must not be fully placed on the back of workers as that could very quickly backfire in a very unpleasant manner. But all that is the consequence of a lack of vision regarding what to do when finally in power. We missed the chance to get rid of many people who used to be leading HDZ officials, people who were the basic levers of the regime and who continue to work in the same way to this day. We haven't introduced order into intelligence services, we forgot to reform the military, police and judiciary. It is obvious that we shall realize all that one day, but by then it will be late, because individuals such as these twelve generals or such as that utterly absurd national soccer team will have been organized by then and the situation will become dangerous and chaotic. Just imagine professional soccer players who sign petitions with clearly destructive political messages. I believe that the meaning of those messages would have been clear to those players if only they had read the petition before signing. I simply cannot believe that all of them would have signed had they known what they were signing.
In spite of everything I would be glad if the Croatian national soccer team qualified for the World Cup, just I was glad when two years ago in Paris the national team ended up in the third place in the world. But I hope that the team can qualify for the final tournament of the World Cup without some present team members, and especially without Ciro Blazevic and people who are behind him. The Croatian soccer would really have to get rid of people such as Vlatko Markovic or Branko Mocibob.
Do you fear that extremist right and Ustashe supporters could with this strategy of small but sharp steps and big time provocations in the end achieve results?
I will never forget the big demonstrations held in Zagreb in February 1998. Then both those who sang the Internatonale and Ustashe songs were together. That enormous dissatisfaction that had been accumulated without doubt announced the impending departure of the HDZ from power. The source of dissatisfaction is not in this or that ideology, nor in this or that political party. I think that the cause of dissatisfaction contained a long-term and universal message. The Croatian authorities will not be brought down by generals, extreme right, or professional soccer players, but they can definitely be endangered by the social conditions in the country. It is high time to realize that there is no sense in discussing generalities and the past. Instead, if we mean well to ourselves and to this people, we should move to the essential issues and the issues of importance for the future. Also, it seems to me that some people in this government are not capable of understanding what has started to happen during the last year or two in this region and where these events are leading. A new and completely different political generation is coming to the political stages of all ex-Yugoslav lands. Just consider what has happened in Serbia and what will happen in Bosnia-Hercegovina in a few weeks. Similarly, consider the events in Slovenia and Montenegro. I am deeply convinced that the departure of Milosevic is the best thing that could have happened to us since January 3 and I do not understand why others do not see that. I do not understand why some people in Croatia, and even some people from the new government, got scared. It is as if they do not know how to today live without Milosevic in the neighborhood. They do not know how to live without that horrible and destructive policy that in a way drove the whole region. Milosevic's departure from power cannot harm any of these countries. Just the opposite. Even the fact that he is no more is enough to push the developments in a positive direction. This region is becoming attractive for the rest of the world, and that is something from which every individual state will be able to profit. In such a situation, without Milosevic, we'll have to work harder, and the politics will not any more be considered as work, nor it will be socially productive. We shall have to be more responsible towards ourselves and towards others. This really makes me happy.