by Vildana SELIMBEGOVIC
JELAVIC: I am not even thinking about any sanctions against myself personally and against my political party because I am convinced that we haven't done anything, as far as our political activities and the election campaign is concerned, in violation of the Constitution of the state and the Constitution of the Federation BH. I have already spoken about electoral rules and regulations. I do not want to comment on the accusations that we directly violated the Dayton Agreement. The election rules and regulations violated the Dayton Agreement and both Constitutions and, what is of paramount importance, they openly assaulted the equality of one of constituent nations and that is why I think that exactly the creators of those rules are responsible for the direction in which these protests went. As far as the organization of the referendum of the Croat people is concerned, the decision was made at the all-Croatian Popular Assembly with more than 550 legitimate representatives of the Croat people and is not in any way an assault on the constitutional order in BH. The implementation of the referendum was highly technical and did not in any manner influence the election process.
On the eve of his dismissal, Nikola Poplasen also referred to the will of the people.
I do not understand your comparison because I do not think that it makes any sense to compare Jelavic and Poplasen. They cannot dismiss me. I worked in accordance with the Constitution and laws. I am aged 37 and have no skeletons in the closet, either from the war or the post-war period. Perhaps the biggest problem for some leaders of the international community is that they cannot keep a noose around my neck, as they are doing with Dukanovic who until a year or a year and a half ago was an aggressor on Croatia and Dubrovnik, and then overnight became a democrat, only to today be again blackmailed with the Hague Tribunal. What I can clearly state and repeat is my attitude with respect to the Dayton Agreement, which is very clear: the Dayton Agreement was signed thanks to great successes of the Croat forces and the Army BH and stopped a truly big bloodletting in BH; it created conditions for peace and gave the Croat people the constituent character, at least on paper. I view that as a positive side of the Dayton Agreement. However, it is also true that in Dayton Croats and Bosniaks in practice lost a half of BH, where the Republic of Srpska (RS) was established as an entity with absolute Serb majority and domination. Besides, that can be confirmed: after five years only three to four percent of non-Serb population have returned to that territory. As far as the position of Croats in the Federation BH is concerned, in practice we have an open assault on our national identity and the election rules and regulations were the last straw. The issue there is not only the election process but setting up of conditions for a change of the political concept of the Federation and transformation of the House of Nations into another House of Representatives, and the transformation of the Federation into an entity under Bosniak domination.
Haven't you declared the Federation dead?
Yes, I consider such a Federation dead.
Therefore, you're going back to the idea of the third entity?
No, that is nonsense. I said that such a federation is for me and the Croat people dead because I believe that these election rules and regulations not only affect the Croat position in the election process but, in addition to everything that I've just mentioned, they turn the Federation from a Croat-Bosniak entity into an entity under Bosniak domination and without any protection mechanism for the Croat people. For me, it does not make sense, if the Federation is an entity of two constituent peoples, that a Bosniak is always a Prime Minister, that Bosniak is always a Minister of Internal Affairs, that the head of the Federation Army is always a Bosniak, and that on the Federation level there is no parity, consensus and rotation on official positions, while such mechanisms exist for example in cantons under special regime [mixed Croat-Bosniak cantons].
Your insistence on endangerment and the referendum you organized were interpreted as a mobilization mechanism provoked by the awareness of a possible abstinence of Croat voters.
All analyses on the eve of the elections indicated that the HDZ was the strongest political party representing Croats, I mean in comparison with the SDA and SDS, and indicated that two months before the elections we had support of more than 40 percent of Croat voters, while the SDS had somewhere around 30 percent, and the SDA around 20 percent of Bosniak voters. However, I would like to remind you that the first article of the United Nations Charter about political and civic rights states that nations have the right to self-determination and that nations have the right to self-expression. I think that we as a constituent nation in BH have the right to express in which kind of BH we want to live and have the right to self-determination.
You held the referendum in spite of the opposition from the international officials in BH. How do you explain its verification? Does it exist at all and is the HDZ the only party that is entitled to talk about that?
A body for the organization of the referendum led by Mr. Muselimovic was established and I think that everything was done on the highest possible technical level with respect of electoral rules and regulations. That body submitted a report to the presidency of the Croat Popular Assembly, and that report was adopted by the assembly. For us the referendum has full legitimacy as well as the Declaration About the Rights and the Position of the Croat People, which was adopted at the all-Croat Popular Assembly. The Declaration asserts our equality in BH, a state with three equal and constituent nations everywhere in BH, and it implies that the Croats in BH advocate a stable and well-organized state of three equal nations. Please, if Serbs in Banja Luka have a TV channel in the Serb language, then supposedly Croats have the right to a channel in the Croat language within the Federation TV, and normally Bosniaks to a channel in the Bosnian language. If Serbs have two universities in Banja Luka and Serb Sarajevo, then supposedly Croats have the right to a university in Mostar and there is no need for pressure of the international community regarding possible integration and unification of universities in Mostar. I initiated the discussion about the Academy of Sciences and Arts BH at the state level so that that Academy can represent all three nations. I did that at a meeting of the BH presidency and two Serb academicians from the Serb Academy of Sciences and Arts came and simply said that they do not want to discuss a common academy because they have their own, the Serb academy. They were possibly prepared to discuss a formation of a Council of Academies on the state level. There, after all these examples, I must stress that we want full national and cultural identity of the Croat people and are not fixated on any territories, or a third entity. However, we do want to really be equal to the other two nations. Also, some representatives of the international community should stop talking about Croats as an ethnic minority, because that is simply unacceptable.
Judging by the complaints sent to the OSCE, the HDZ will however, have on both the Federation and state level significantly less votes than, according to your report, positively reacted to your referendum. Some claim that certain votes counted twice?
That is not correct. I do not have the full results in front of me right now, but it must be kept in mind that we faced strong competition from other parties. In the Neretva canton votes were taken by the "Work for Betterment", The Party of Rights, Christian Democrats, HKDU and other political parties, but those votes went to the HDZ on the Federation and state levels. Therefore, the total of 215,000 votes cast in the referendum includes votes cast for the HDZ on the state level as well a those cast for other political parties, including, I believe, those parties that did not participate in the work of the Croat Popular Assembly. We have reliable information about that from the central Bosnia and the Bosnian Sava Valley region.
One gets impression that you are in constant confrontation with the High Representative Petritsch and ambassador Barry?
Petritsch and Barry, especially Barry and the OSCE mission for BH, not only established conditions for the elimination of national parties from the political stage in BH with their electoral rules and regulations, but also established conditions for the transformation of the political concept of BH under guise of the creation of a rational and efficient political system, one person - one vote. For us, Croats, in practice that implies that in the first phase BH would be divided into two entities, one with Serb and other with Bosniak majority and domination. I can openly state that I would not refer to that decision, as my colleague from the Presidency did, as genocidal, but it is truly shameful and is a direct violation of the Dayton Agreement and both Constitutions in BH. That move probably contributed to the electoral success of above all the HDZ, but also all other national parties.
Do you really think that the future of BH lies in national parties?
I think that that is a wrong question. Let me ask you something. Is the SDP a multiethnic party as far as its members and infrastructure are concerned? Are there any truly multiethnic parties at this moment in BH? Or, if you like, please let me know what these civic parties are and, if the SDP is truly a Croat party, how many Croat votes did it win in the last election?
What about your theory about the endangerment of the Croat people in BH? Does it have any basis if one has in mind that exactly the HDZ has portrayed itself for the last ten years as the only protector of the Croats?
Look, we are not trying to avoid our political responsibility for the overall position of the Croat people, but on November 11 we received a public assessment of those mistakes and whether we deserve the support of Croat voters. I do not want to talk about endangerment, I only want to say that the national and cultural identity of the Croat nation in BH as an equal nation has not been protected. We have serious concerns regarding the educational system, university, electronic media. Only Croats in BH do not have a public TV channel in their own language...
You've opened a fierce debate with Mr Klein regarding the investigation of the murder of late Jozo Leutar.
I can sometimes be too direct and that may not be always good, but I do not hold back when I feel that justice is on my side. As far as Leutar case is concerned, Klein practically accused the HDZ of organizing the assassination of Leutar. I made an effort, went to Zagreb, talked to Mr. Racan to check whether Klein really had gone to Zagreb, as he had claimed, and whether he had talked to Racan and Mesic. Racan told me that Mr. Klein had not been to Zagreb and discussed Leutar's case, and that General Andabak had not been arrested in connection with any crimes committed in BH, including the Leutar case, but because of drug smuggling. After the voluntary surrender of Mr. Lucic, allegedly prime suspect in the case, to the cantonal judge in Sarajevo and the testimony of the protected witness who confirmed that Lucic was not Leutar's murderer, the whole case obviously collapsed. I still think that Mr. Klein, if he is a moral person, ought to after all that take responsibility for his actions and statements.
Have you been thinking about a possibility that the SDP, the Party for BH and a few smaller Croat parties form a coalition and thereby obtain the majority necessary for the formation of a government?
The Federation is a Croat-Bosniak entity, an entity of two constituent nations. The political will of the Federation citizens must be respected, just as the political will of the two constituent nations must be respected. I hope that no one is foolish enough to think in that direction.
Is your self-confidence the result of a firm coalition with Izetbegovic, realized by the efficient pair Bicakcic-Covic?
I would not agree that there is a firm coalition between myself and Izetbegovic. My experiences with Mr. Izetbegovic, who is many times my senior, are based on two years of work in the Presidency. I think that we've had hundreds of face to face meetings about practical matters such as the return, Zepce, reconstruction, size of the military etc. I think that we had a correct dialog. I support Izetbegovic's concept for the organization of BH as one stable state with three equal, constituent and sovereign nations. I think that Izetbegovic and I fully agreed only regarding that question.
Have you made a deal with Covic and allowed him to implement the HDZ policy in Mostar, which is interpreted as a direct threat to the survival of Neven Tomic in the city council?
I didn't consider Neven Tomic's position during the last two months because I had much more pressing concerns - victory in the elections. The HDZ policy in Mostar has been very clearly explained in our political program and I can personally say that I would like to see Mostar as one city of all of its citizens. However, Covic is the HDZ politician in charge of the implementation of our policies in Mostar.
How much did his negative attitude with respect to Prlic and Tomic influence his appointment to that position?
That is his attitude and there's nothing we can do about that.
It seems that the president of Croatia, Stipe Mesic, agrees with the views of the international officials here as far as you are concerned. How do you plan to build relations with Croatia after clear president Mesic's announcements that you should not expect assistance from the [Croatian] budget?
I do not personally care about Mesic's views. He is the president of the Republic of Croatia and he would do better to work on the problems of Croatia instead of meddling in the internal matters of BH. I would not want to repeat the words of my friend Muselimovic that Mesic is a natural catastrophe for the Croatian people, but that statement is very close to the truth.
Bosniak votes were sharply divided between the SDA, the SDP BH, and the Party for BH (SzBH). Who would you prefer to work with on the formation of a new government?
I do not care at all. I am prepared to be in coalition with any coalition partner, as long as that partner is trustworthy and a serious political force, and willing to work on the practical matters such as the question of the self-sustaining BH of three equal sovereign and constituent nations, as well as the issues from the economy and social problems, which should in the next period have absolute priority.
In that case, how quickly can we expect the merger of the [Croat and Bosniak] pension funds?
I am prepared to merge them immediately, as long as that is done in such a way that all accounts are publicly settled. You know very well that the Pension Fund Sarajevo owes five pensions while the one in Mostar has been regularly paying all of its obligations. Therefore, we are prepared to merge the two pension funds, as long as all accounts are clear and publicly settled.
Would you care to comment the idea that Jadranko Prlic should gather those dissatisfied with your policies and found a new party?
I think that that is a good idea and he has my support. I think that he would be a serious competition to the HDZ.
How do you assess yourself: are you a better soldier or a politician? Can you tell us the differences in your financial situation between the time when you were an officer of the Yugoslav People's Army and today when you are the leader of the HDZ?
I am not much of a soldier, although due to circumstances I ended up in a military school and spent ten years in a boarding school. I completed a five-year engineering college-level course and after that completed some post-graduate education. However, I had a hard time at the boarding school, as well as with the military career. Between 1986 and 1991 I submitted discharge requests on three occasions, but all of them were rejected, as I was under contract at the time. The fact that after all those years of education in Zagreb I was sent to a small village in Bosnia as one of the best students (I'd rather not talk about the reasons, since they are partly of political nature) clearly indicates my dedication to a military career. However, I pulled through four years in a village with 40-50 households and I can tell you that those were in a way the best moments of my life. For the first time I lived in a different environment. I am from Ljubusjki, form Vrgorac, and some things were simply hard for me to imagine, and that is why the time spent in Hrenovica was good for me.
You didn't tell me anything about the differences in your financial situation?
As a soldier I had an apartment in Pale, in Hrenovka. Today I have an apartment in Split. As far as the house that you wrote about is concerned, it is owned by my two brothers, who have their own families and children. My father also lives in that house, and I live here in Mostar in a three room seventy meters square apartment. The apartment is the property of the Ministry of Defense and was given to some official for use. These days I am supposed to move out and I intend to move in to the house you refer to as the White House [Beli Dvor], but that house is not my property.
Whose property is it then, HDZ's, cantonal?
It was built by a friend of mine and I will sign a contract with him. The house is his. Therefore it is not Ante Jelavic's property, or the property of his family, or the HDZ; the house is the property of my friend and I can present you the documents proving that.
What did you write in the book of condolences when Tito died, and what when Tudman died?
When Tito died I did not write anything. When Tudman died I was very brief. I wrote that the creator of the new Croatian state had died and that he had created that state in the crucial moments for the Croatian people.
Will you allow that the grave of Mato Boban be opened if the International War Crimes Tribunal requests that?
That is not under my jurisdiction. But I do think that it is silly that they doubt that he is dead.
Mr. Zubak on one occasion stated that you cried because of a possibility of testifying in the Hague. Will you respond if summoned to testify?
I would rather not comment on Mr. Zubak's statements. You saw him a few days ago on November 11. You could see his expression. That indicates clearly who and whether anyone cried at all. However, it is true that at that time, while Mr. Zubak was a member of the BH Presidency and I was a minister of defense, he probably cooperated closely with the Tribunal in the Hague; I would rather not say in which direction his moves went, but I do know that as a Minister of Defense I for two years had a subpoena because the Tribunal demanded some documentation of the Croatian Defense Council (HVO). If anyone should have reacted to that, that should have been the first Croat politician in BH, therefore Mr. Zubak. However, if it is necessary to go to the Hague, I am ready, but I do not think that I was sufficiently close to the late Boban for the Tribunal to express its interest in me. I was much closer to some other people, who are not any more in the HDZ. However, I do not think that that question should be reopened, although I simply cannot have as much information about that period as some who were at the time in the government of Herceg-Bosna. What I always say is that in that dirty war, which went on for a few years, and especially during the Croat-Bosniak conflict, both Bosniaks and Croats had relations with the Serbs, and Serbs benefited the most from that Croat-Bosniak conflict.
Globus recently wrote about your control of intelligence services. They claimed that you even eavesdrop on journalists?
I skimmed through that article, but I really did not read it carefully. I can say responsibly that, as far as the National Security Service, which will soon become a part of the Federation Security Service in accordance with the law, is concerned that not a single journalist has been wiretapped by that service on the territory of the Federation BH.
Why didn't you go to Dayton?
Because I was tired from the election campaign, and not because I am a big opponent of the Dayton Agreement. Also, because Dayton is a very ugly town. Friends have told me that there is no life there. I have spent too much time in a boarding school to be willing to waste another four-five days in a barracks.
If some decisions are made there, how would you treat them?
I will implement those decision made by the representatives of the international community and legitimate representatives of the three nations in BH.