interview by Nerzuk CURAK
MASOVIC: I've lost track. I think that this one is number seventeen, and the tenth one deeper than 20 meters.
Today, I found out an incredible thing, that you had taken your 13-year-old son down into the ravine?
Simply, all these discussions about the grammar textbooks, whether the Drina river was green or red, whether this was an aggression or a mistake, argument in the Balkans or a bloody war, have scared me. I actually got scared because of my experience. I had no idea until this aggression that Bosniaks lived in the past in the Balkans, had certain number of religious objects on the other side of the Drina etc. Only this aggression revealed some things. I wanted, perhaps somewhat selfishly, to give my child a chance, so that he is prepared. I do not know what will happen in 20-30 years, whether there will be another war, whether blood will flow again in Bosnia-Hercegovina, but I, it seems to me, will be in peace. My son knows, he has seen. I told him: "The circumstances are such that in school you'll have to respond the way it's written in your textbooks; you should say that, but you know, it's in your head, you've seen." He saw a girl aged three or four in Hrgar. She was pulled out from 66 meters under surface, and we never identified her. We know that she is a girl, we found her boots, but we do not know who she is. He saw with his own eyes. Two months ago I took him down to the ravine Lisac near Krupa, where camp inmates from the camps near Prijedor had been bestially executed.
What are your immediate priorities?
Above all, human remains left on the surface in the Srebrenica region and the villages around Sokolac. In places where victims were left on the surface, there has been danger for eight years now that animals and humans would scatter the remains. The returnees are partly returning to their villages and finding fathers, mothers, burnt in their homes, in front of homes, in the fields, so that that is our highest priority. Of course, for emotional reasons, so that families would not have to be exposed to such scenes, if after eight years they've finally found enough strength to return to those burnt down houses, and house compounds. It would be too much to force them after everything to see skeletons of their fathers and mothers. We are active and this year we shall work with six courts, the ones in Sarajevo, Tuzla, Mostar, Zenica, Travnik and Bihac. So far, not including this mass grave, we've exhumed 543 victims.
Do you have information about the number of persons still classified as missing?
My data indicate that there are 27,000 missing persons. Out of that 94% are Bosniaks. The data of the International Red Cross Committee indicate a somewhat smaller number, because they have somewhat stricter criteria. Namely, they take reports of missing persons only from the immediate relatives and it is widely known that in some cases whole families were slain. In this ravine, we shall find eleven Kusturs eight Karamans, and six Omerovics. Who is going to report Kusturs if all of them are at the bottom of this ravine? Who is an immediate family relation if no one has survived? The situation in Prijedor is similar, as well as in Sanski Most, and Kljuc, where we had 49 Dzaferagics Who can report them when they were practically exterminated?
The Commission for Missing Persons of the Republic of Srpska?
They, fortunately for them and us, do not have the same task as we do. There are certain manipulations there. It depends on who from the Republic of Srpska presents those data. During the last two years there was a campaign in the eastern part of the Republic of Srpska, which attempted to prove a silly theory that three thousands, seven thousands, or ten thousands Serbs were killed in Sarajevo. I have emphasized on many occasions that the only direct information about the number of missing Serbs in Sarajevo was the one reported by the families to the Red Cross, plus-minus perhaps 10%, for the reasons I mentioned earlier. There are 266 of them, 56 of whom were reported as missing in action. They are missing members of the Serb army who disappeared in Zuc, Treskavica, Igman and all fronts around Sarajevo. Therefore, about 210 civilians, including women. I think that one of them is a minor. They are considered to be missing from the Sarajevo region, in the part controlled by the authorities of Bosnia-Hercegovina and the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina respectively.
Does that Commission allow you to conduct exhumations of "their" victims?
I am really only limited by the requests of families. Therefore if a Serb family from Belgrade, or from Kraljevo, as has really happened, gets in touch with our Commission, we shall do that.
Tell us more about the case from Kraljevo?
A soldier of the Yugoslav People's Army, from Kraljevo, perished in Skenderija, in that convoy. His mother tried to obtain the remains of her son through the Chiefs of Staff of the Yugoslav Army. She failed, got in touch with us, and we helped her. That young man was found, identified, and his mortal remains turned over to his mother. We considered that to be our duty since his mother is no different from other mothers. What he was before that, who he shot at, how, all of that is not important now. He is dead and his parents have the right to know where his mortal remains are.
I've put on my bullet-proof vest. Shoot.
Why did Amor Masovic agree to become the leading SDA candidate for the state parliament in the November general elections?
Too much importance is given to the fact that I am a candidate of the SDA and that I am the leading SDA candidate. One person, regardless of his or her reputation cannot help or harm a lot any political party. This is an explosive time and region. We do not have the same type of democracy as in some countries where democracy has been in place for two or three hundreds of years, so that that fact could influence the mood of the voters. Another thing, it is possible that the reason was that I saw that the forthcoming elections would be very unequal, that one side was disadvantaged, regardless of its quality and inclination to fair play. The audience, referees, and opponents, all of them were on the one side, only the other team on the other side. Another reason was that the offer for my candidacy came from the people I respect, from president Izetbegovic. I emphasize that those same individuals introduced me to the job I started doing in 1992 and that I continue to do. I respect them. Finally, last but not the least, I want to try to turn the task that I have placed in front of myself and my people into a state problem of Bosnia-Hercegovina. That hasn't happened so far. Everything was left to certain entity commissions.
I find it difficult to agree with your humble presentation of the role and significance of an individual, especially if he is a leading candidate of a certain political party. There is no doubt that the SDA has remembered you because they are convinced that you are a person who can pull them out of mud and the expected defeat?
Nerzuk, can Amor Masovic really save the SDA?
Now you're really overdoing it with your humble attitude. Many people see you as an unquestionable moral authority and you place yourself at the top of the list of candidates of a party that has all these years to a good extent been anything but moral?
Fine, should these people be condemned for that, for putting me on the top of their list of candidates?
No, they shouldn't. You should be criticized for agreeing to become the leader of a team that deserves to loose.
Fine. Of course, I do not agree with that. I never fight an already lost battle. It seems to me that something can be done here. Really, many things on the state level should be changed. Above all, the language used in the Parliament. They are still waging a war and using the language that has absolutely nothing to do with the current reality of Bosnia-Hercegovina. Simply, we need to teach our members of the Parliament and parties to fight for their programs instead of spitting on their opponents... I would support the same goal as a candidate of any political party. It turned out that I got an offer from only one party. I really do not know whether I would have accepted an offer from another party. I would definitely consider it, as I did in this case. This time I decided that I am not in an impossible position and that I can still score effectively. We shall find out in November whether I will succeed. I really believe in people, even in those who make mistakes. People should be given a chance. There is only one type of people to whom I would never give a second chance. They are actually inhuman, the people because of whom we are today in this ravine. A second chance for people like that can mean only one thing - another ravine with 50 or 100 new victims. But all other people should really be given a second chance.
Is it true that no one from the opposition has called you during the eight years you've been doing this job and expressed a desire to visit a killing field with you?
I do not recall that Amor Masovic has ever been called by anyone and that anyone has requested to be transported to a ravine or a mass grave, to see what is going on, what kind of work this is, who the victims are. I would be happy if one of them proved me wrong. Bosnians and Hercegovinians are not uneducated or stupid. They appreciate compassion. People do not sympathize with me because of my good looks, which are pretty much non existent. But my continuous presence, my desire, my persistence to touch the bottom of every ravine, probably elicits some support from ordinary people. Those people should feel the inner need to be here and if they cannot bear to see a grave and mutilated and broken bodies, they may at least show up at the burial of the victims. That is not such a horrible scene as the ravines, as mass graves. So that these people, those ordinary people can see that these leaders really feel compassion for their pain. It is not enough to send a letter of condolences. The real compassion is expressed by finding that old man and by squeezing his hand.
Will Amor Masovic, if he is elected to the Bosnian Parliament, continue with his work?
I hope I will. I hope above all that everything I have done so far is compatible with the duty of a member of the Bosnian Parliament. I think that it is. The obligations in the Parliament are not daily obligations such as the ones I have as the head of the Commission. I will try to offer as much as I can in both of these duties. I deliberately do not say my best because that can be done only if a man totally dedicates himself to a job. This way, torn between two duties, I will try to make sure that my duty as the head of the Commission does not suffer, because I think that at the moment this is the most important issue in Bosnia-Hercegovina. This is a precondition for talks about reconciliation and for tolerance and future life in Bosnia-Hercegovina. The most important condition is that the truth is found out, that the criminals are tried, punished and that families find peace. People neglect that almost 300,000 Bosnians and Hercegovinians are today watching our work. Some of them have missing relatives in Prijedor, some in Srebrenica, Zvornik, Vlasenica, Foca, Visegrad... That is why the problem of the victims has to become a state problem. That is my motivation. I really do not have any political aspirations. If I did, I would have definitely ended up in some much more pleasant place.