Maybe Belgrade, whose mayor you were until two years ago, is the best example of post-electoral failures?
Numerous pre-electoral promises remained unfulfilled, but in spite of the pressure of the national authorities, they could have done more. I remember sharp criticism because of kiosks, illegal construction, the status of the capital city, public transportation and I must say, although maybe it isn't my place to say this, everything is much worse than when I was a mayor. Not because everything we did was ideal, but because we put way more energy into it and had many more ideas than the current authorities. I regret that Belgrade has not been given the status it deserves and that it was not used to initiate changes in the rest of Serbia.
What do you see as the basic reason for that?
I believe that some parties entered into agreements with the ruling coalition and keep functioning that way, although the time will show that such collaboration can only discredit them in the eyes of the voters.
Are you referring to the Serbian Renewal Movement (SPO)?
Not only to them. They bear a part of responsibility for what has and has not happened, but the other side, the Democratic party and its leader [Zoran Dindic] also share responsibility for that. I would like to exclude the Civic Alliance of Serbia and Ms. Vesna Pesic. They were a bridge and the only reasonable member of the coalition.
I am not inclined to measure somebody's guilt in percentages, but I do know that such behavior of SPO and DS and their leaders ruined the democratic ideal in Serbia and provoked great dissatisfaction, apathy, and distrust towards politicians among the citizens. A pure, democratic energy was wasted; in spite of various political leaders' vanity, that energy was not politically led and articulated. That is a large problem for democratic processes, because it is impossible to achieve changes in Serbia without the participation of the citizens. Unfortunately, after numerous swindles in the past, it is hard to motivate people.
Belgrade has been without a mayor for more than a year. Your comment?
It is sad that ours is probably the only city in Europe without a mayor. It is even sadder that the citizens of Belgrade are not in a position to directly elect their mayor and thus give him a high degree of freedom and responsibility. Without that, Belgrade will continue to deteriorate, and a few years in the future it will be very difficult to live there, notwithstanding that the life in Belgrade is already hard.
Soon, it will be two years since you have left the ruling party. What is it like to be in the opposition? It probably would not hurt to remind the readers of how you left the ruling party.
After 55 days of observing party discipline, as some say, on January 11 1997 I publicly disagreed with the [Socialist] Party [of Serbia]. I do not change teams easily, especially when my team is in trouble. During those 55 days I respected the majority and explained to the party leader [Slobodan Milosevic], who was at the time the President of Serbia, all that was illogical and irresponsible in connection with the electoral fraud. After every our conversation, I was left with the impression that I managed to convince him and that the following day would bring the recognition of the true election results and, consequently, the resolution of the crisis and Serbia's readmission to the International Community.
Honestly, I wouldn't give 55 days even to my own father. After a series of deceptions, I decided that enough was enough and appeared in public with the view that I had supported since November 18 1996. As soon as January 14 1997, Milosevic responded by expelling me from the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS). I am extremely grateful for that. Since January 14 1997, I have learnt what it means to be free. I have changed my thinking and perception of everything I experienced since 1991.
I acted in a troubled and specific time. Please, not even for a single moment have I been ashamed for being a member of SPS. However, it is now absolutely clear that, thanks to Mr. Milosevic and primarily [his wife] Ms. Markovic, the leftist ideals have been thoroughly discredited in this region. Since the leftist ideals are visibly prospering in Europe, and socialist and social democratic parties are winning power in highly developed countries, it can be concluded that in Serbia the problem is not in the leftist ideals but in the abuse and manipulation of leftist ideals by a group whose only goal is to line its pockets.
That type of the Left has formed a coalition with the so-called Right. Last year you mentioned that Dr. Vojislav Seselj, president of the Serb Radical Party, was actually recruited in 1992 by the leadership of SPS to destroy Serb opposition. How did that happen?
During 1992, analysis showed that even in the then Serbian parliament [dominated by SPS] there was a need for someone who would destroy the unity of the opposition. Of course, the choice was obvious since the task required someone with a unique combination of charisma and insolence that is characteristic of Seselj. Seselj ran for the Parliament in Rakovica [working class suburb of Belgrade] and SPS chose for its candidate in Rakovica an honorable but otherwise unremarkable individual. Thus, Seselj's entry in the Parliament was ensured; just recall how he behaved and used all possible means to destroy the opposition. After that he received everything necessary for the daily operations of a political party: financial support, office space, assistance in setting up local organizations... Therefore, Seselj is a product of SPS or, more precisely, Slobodan Milosevic.
Who decided that?
The decision was not made in the Executive or Chief Council of SPS and the public is wrong if it thinks that these Councils are responsible for the most important decisions. The most recent example is that the Executive and Chief Councils didn't discuss Milosevic-Holbrooke Agreement about Kosovo, let alone recent expulsions from the party. For example, the first expulsion of Vucelic, together with Jovic and Markovic, believe it or not, was finished after only five minutes in the offices of the City Organization of SPS [for Belgrade]. Its president Slobodan Jovanovic was also dismissed on that occasion.
The rules of the game are such that the president of the party reads names and, without discussion, people from the lists are dismissed. That shows that the party is not a democratic institution but that a system of fear and reward is used for its control.
Why have the University and independent media become so dangerous that it was necessary to neutralize them at any cost?
That was based on the experience of the civic protests two years ago when it was obvious that the University was a potential focus of resistance, potential energy that can initiate democratic processes; that is why it was attacked so brutally and totally deprived of freedom. Those poor professors and assistant professors, whose salaries are miserable, were forced to sign loyalty oaths and now the authorities are offering them apartments. That is a poison pill they are supposed to swallow. The brutal attack on the media removes the necessity to explain actions of the authorities to the citizens.
Do not think that I defend SPS, but while I was in power there was no such brutality. It came with the introduction of Seselj and the interest group from JUL. They have no mercy. All methods are permissible. The next in line of attack are the remaining opposition parties and individuals who refuse obedience regardless of the cost.
Your Democratic Alternative is one of the founders of the Association for Changes. Do you think that such a group has a chance to succeed?
The Association is supposed to bring something new to the Serbian political scene. Personally, I think that it must be open to other parties and even individuals who do not want to belong to any parties, but do support changes. We, the leaders, although I would put that word between inverted commas, our vanities and desired goals, will determine the success of the Association for Changes. You know, it does not matter how many seats in the Parliament or Ministers a particular party will have; we must get out of the habit to hunt for ministerial portfolios as good positions for personal enrichment and get out of the habit to enter politics for the same reason. Serbia needs professionals, competent, responsible and proven people, regardless of their political affiliation.
I think that the Association, in spite of the media blockade, has a chance to initiate progress. Besides, if we repeat old mistakes, we should forget about politics.
Kosovo is a number one problem in Serbia. During the last years election campaign you warned that Serbia could easily loose Kosovo if it continues with the same policy. What do you predict today?
It turned out I was right, although that does not make me happy, since we are all losers. Milosevic's political style is such that he makes a problem if there isn't one, does not think nor take a strategic view, but works in a narrow space squeezed by as a rule negative relations. That is obvious with Kosovo: at the beginning of the conflict, immediately after the appearance of the Kosovo Liberation Army, Milosevic adopted hard line nationalist rhetoric and used Seselj as his spokesperson. He pushed the situation to the absurdity with the infamous referendum.
If Milosevic were a mature and responsible politician he would call another referendum and seek from the citizens a mandate to sign the agreement [with Holbrooke]. Instead, he brought Serbia to the edge of a foreign intervention and only then made a turnaround and presented himself in the state-controlled media as our savior. None of the media questioned why we ended up in that situation in the first place.
The regime survives in power due to short memory of our people. That is not surprising if one recalls that as many as 43 percent of population in Serbia is functionally illiterate. That means that 43 percent of adults can sign their name and read something but they cannot understand what they read. Thus they rely on pictures. And we know who in Serbia produces pictures: [state-controlled] RTS produces program about another country, not a contemporary Serbia.
I think that Kosovo will receive greater autonomy than the one guaranteed with the Constitution from 1974, in spite of the fact that Milosevic came to power thanks to the elimination of that Constitution. Kosovo will have the same rights as a republic [in the Yugoslav federation], but based on an ethnic principle and almost 100% ethnically pure Kosovo. I fear that we will witness another repetition of the Republic of Srpska Krajina, that almost all Serbs will leave Kosovo, the way they left Knin.
Vucelic was dismissed twice. You described his first dismissal. Can you guess why he was recently dismissed again?
Milorad Vucelic made a mistake when he returned to SPS. After everything he experienced, he gave them another chance. He believed that the things would be different this time. I believe that he was never forgiven for disagreements with Mira Markovic and the concept behind JUL. All of us more-or-less wondered why we needed JUL [JUL was founded at Ms. Markovic's request as a sister party of SPS. Although it has no electoral support (it ran on its own only in last year's elections in Montenegro where it won 0.1 percent of total votes), it is strongly represented in the government and on boards of state-controlled enterprises]. In general, we had nothing against JUL, but we did not want to form a coalition with them. I am convinced that if it ran on its own, JUL would do worse than at the recent elections in Montenegro.
We will see whether the political execution will be followed by other means. Vucelic is a smart man and I hope that he will find a way to confront them. They have no scruples. They attack family, even children, work...
Actually, they are convinced that everything can be fabricated. However, it seems to me that we are entering a period when all of this will turn out to be a counter-productive attempt to establish criteria for new moral and political suitability [a requirement for public service employment under Communism].